when i used to read the prophecies of revelation and see the society's interpetation i often thought to myself, "how could this be"?
i shelved a lot of things, hoping that maybe i'd understand over time or the "light would get brighter".. as an elder, i used to wonder how they (the society) could tell the elders one thing and put into print another thing.
while the rank and file were being told at the watchtower studies how the elders were to not judge unfairly at judicial committees, the elders were told to be safe rather than sorry when it came to "removing the wicked man from our midst".
I never agreed with the Society's teaching (1979) that Jesus was not Mediator for the "Other Sheep."
I did not find the new (1985) baptismal vow questions acceptable.
I found the QfR in the 01. April 1986 Watchtower disturbing.
I did not agree with the Society's pre-1995 timing of the separation of the Sheep and Goats.
I did not agree with the Society's claim (w 01/1992) that Jesus was not divine.
&c., &c.
for those who feel that i've hijacked your thread(s), i'm still relatively new here, so your forgiveness (based on this acknowledgement and apology) is appreciated.
i'm posting this link, http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/131766/2343640/post.ashx#2343640, on the other threads as soon as i can.
bear with me as i attend to the necessary housework involved.. fred/q..
A blast-from-the-past:
01. April 1986 QfR:Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: "Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.
This is most fascinating. When the F&DS was supposedly appointed in 1919, the Watch Tower Society was still teaching that the Resurrection had begun in 1878 -- a teaching not altered until 1927 -- and which teaching the WTS now rejects as false. (Indeed, one would be disfellowshiped today for holding the pre-1927 view.) Does it not bugger the imagination to believe the Lord appointed over all his belongings an organisation that (by its own published standard) would be 'rightly branded apostate, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship'?
well, as anyone on this board knows i"m a newbie....and witnesses kind of are scaring me with their "end is coming" business.
basically, cuz of three things:.
1) the last convention was called "jehovah's day at hand!
As an antidote to any anxiety felt regarding the name and message of the 2006 "Deliverance at Hand" District Convention, please see the following link: "Deliverance at Hand"
watch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.
"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?
" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.
Compare/contrast the above to the following:
Life Everlasting (1966)
(p. 147)
53 Since then, going on to a million persons have
Dedicated themselves to Jehovah God and have
been baptized in water and now profess to belong,
not to the anointed remnant of the “little flock,”
(p. 148)
but to the “other sheep.” In fact, no heavenly
calling, no spiritual Kingdom hope, were held be-
fore them at the time of their water baptism.Why was this? What did this baptism and bring-
ing in of such “other sheep” since 1934 mean?
54 Evidently it meant that the 144,000 who were
called to the heavenly kingdom had been picked
out by that time and that there was just a rem-
nant of those “anointed” for the Kingdom left
on earth.”
It certainly seems to me that the Society set the stage for the confirmation of their teaching. The circular reasoning is priceless! ‘Because the heavenly calling ended circa 1934, it was not offered to the “other sheep”, which meant they necessarily felt they had an earthly hope, and since they did, it indicates the heavenly calling ended circa 1934…’
watch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.
"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?
" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.
In 1935 the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of "other sheep," Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in "the last days" and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.(Difficulty posting, also see below)
watch out for the questions from readers in the may 1st 2007 watchtower.
"when does the calling of christians to a heavenly hope cease?
" it's a good'un.. included are the statements:.
An interesting tidbit from WTS history is that in its original concept being part of the "anointed" class was a significant step beyond consecration. To be anointed was to be sanctified to sainthood. It was the "cream of the crop". It meant that you voluntarily "offered your bodies as a living sacrifice" (Rom 12:1), which was counted as a ransom payment for unredeemed mankind during the millennium (mystery doctrine).
But within this original concept, "anointed" members came out from among the temporary ranks of the "great multitude" (who were consecrated, but had not progressed beyond a "seed" in sanctification). Thus the two classes had existed alongside each other from day one.
Slight correction: The members of the 144 000, who were to share in the sacrifice (Mystery doctrine), were "sealed" -- NOT simply anointed. The members of the "Great Company" class were also considered "anointed".
i'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but on pages 28-29 of the april 15, 2007 watchtower study on let the congregation be built up, they seem to be trying to justify the notion that a person cannot be 'saved' if they leave the organization, even if they have just cause:.
paragraph 15 reads" in modern times, some have ceased associating with the local congregation, feeling that they will serve god on their own.
they may say that it is because their feelings were hurt, they think a wrong is not being corrected, or they cannot accept some teaching.
The individual might go off on his own or be associating with just a few others, but where is the arrangement for congregation elders and the provision of ministerial servants?
Are Elders really necessary? I distinctly remember something else in the Proclaimers book (p. 53):
It took real courage in those days to withdraw from one's church. [...] But she stood firm, even though there was no congregation of Bible Students nearby. As her son later described her situation: "no study servant [elder] to lean on. No meetings. A contrite heart. A worn Bible. Long prayerful hours." (bracket in original)
ok--i have decided i do want to answer the door when the elders return.
i won't let them speak at all, i am going to hold up my hand and tell them to let me have my say.
i am planning to say the following, and i'm trying to keep it very simple and to the point:.
Tell them you annulled your baptism seven years ago, and thus are not under their suzerainty...
hi there been reading this forum for a few weeks and this is my first post.
i recently came into contact with a person who is a jw and although we respect each others religion she has recently started preching that the end is near and how much we should hate this current system.
we talk about the jw religion and she accepts my views when i question what she believes.
Oh, the "End is near", is it?!?!
I've heard that "Deliverance is at hand!" Over and over again: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118225/1.ashx
i wrote this just because i recently saw some people on another site trying to defend the 607 date.
this is mostly for lurkers, those who still may be hodling onto the idea that there is truth in this date.
probably one of the most talked about wt doctrines is that of 1914 and the 'gentile times'.
Most notably, since the bible students believed that Jesus had already arrived in 1874, they were not even ready for his arrival in 1914, so whilst Christendom was awaiting his return, bible students would not have been paying attention to his arrival. In fact, since they didn't teach Jesus' parousia happened till 1943, Russell and Rutherford would have been completely unaware that Jesus' didn't arrive till 1914, believing it had happened 40 years earlier.
Yep. And the Greatest Man book states (chapters 131 and/or 132) that when Jesus arrived in 1914, only his true disciples saw it. So I guess that "proves" that the Bible Students (later called JW's) were not his true disciples. The Society continued to teach that the Second Parousia began in 1874 until at least 1929 (Prophecy book).
