John 15:1b would appear to violate Colwell's "rule"...
bennyk
JoinedPosts by bennyk
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Robert H. COUNTESS and John 1:1 in the NWT
by Wonderment inrobert h. countess and john 1:1 in the nwt, part iirobert h. countess made the case in his book that the nwt ‘formulated their own principle’ on the article.
under summary and conclusions, he stated: “chapter four’s conclusions regarding the handling of [theós] indicated that nwt’s translators poorly understood the greek article, and that their principle [theós]=‘a god,’ [ho theós]= ‘god’ is not legitimate.” (p. 92) is countess conclusion correct?this is what the nwt actually said after observing that both moffatt and goodspeed rendered john 1:1c in their translations as “divine.” “careful translators recognize that the articular construction of the noun points to an identity, a personality, whereas an anarthrous contruction points to a quality about someone.” in making this statement, the nw translators also had in mind the grammar by dana & mantey, in which they stated: “when identity is prominent, we find the article; and when quality or character is stressed, the construction is anarthrous [without the article].” (p. 138) also: “there are no ‘rules’ for the use of the article in greek, but there is a fundamental principle underlying its significance – as we have seen in the foregoing section – and this gives rise to a normal usage.” (ibid, p. 141) nowhere did the nwt ever affirmed that this meant [theós] without the article is always equivalent to = ‘a god,’ and [ho theós, with the article is always to be understood as = ‘god.’ even the wts would have to agree with countess that such principle is “not legitimate.” colwell first published his book in 1982, and by then the watchtower had made their position clear enough.
in 1975 the wt wrote: “this does not mean, however, that every time an anarthrous noun occurs in the greek text it should appear in english with the indefinite article.
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bennyk
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Struggling to Live a Lie
by Addison0998 init’s been very difficult, much more than i first anticipated to live a lie, (be pimo and a regular active member) i still live with my parents but i plan on moving out at the end of the year, so i really need to keep it together.
but i think people are starting to get suspicious that something is up.
i’ve stopped commenting, going on service all the time, talking at the door, and occasionally voicing something, such as a question that no one has a good answer for, that makes people think, but ahah, thinking is dangerous and wrong so that is suspicious of course.
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bennyk
Addison0998,
The Elders disrespected you, removed your "privileges", and destroyed your morale. They stumbled you.
That is your "out".
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advice please/data protection
by Phoebe ini have just received an email from an elder's wife regarding the new data protection laws.
between the lines it sounds like she has been asked to contact me.. she says they 'don't want to leave me out' so they want me to fill out the form as 'i'm still part of the congregation'.
also, my blood card needs updating, apparently.. the elder in charge will be in contact.. obviously, i'm not doing either, but what do i do?
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bennyk
Schwups! You'd really like to accommodate their wishes, but your husband (as your scriptural head) has forbidden you to do so...
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Judge Orders Jehovah's Witnesses to turn over Internal Documents re: Childhood Sexual Abuse
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://nixlaw.com/news/judge-orders-jehovahs-witnesses-to-turn-over-internal-documents-related-to-childhood-sexual-abuse/.
judge orders jehovah’s witnesses to turn over internal documents related to childhood sexual abuse.
april 12, 2018. .
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bennyk
"[T]he Jehovah’s Witnesses have refused to produce documents related to their internal handling of reports of sexual abuse and related investigations and disciplinary actions claiming that the information is protected by the clergy-penitent privilege and the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Through briefing to the court, NPR convinced the Judge that Defendants’ privilege claims were unsupported and improper under the law."
How can the Watch Tower Society claim "clergy-penitent privilege" when they proudly proclaim in their literature that they have no clergy???
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Lies from the watchtower
by StephaneLaliberte ini am interested in getting a list of lies that the watchtower has said or wrote in the past that could actually be proven to be as such, or, for the very least, deliberately misleading.
1. in a morning worship lecture in 2015, stephen lett said .
"rejecting false stories designed to separate us from jehovah's organization.
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bennyk
The older WTS publications to be contrasted with the more recent claims:
"The time of the Lord’s second presence dates from 1874, as above stated." --The Harp of God, p. 231
"The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D."-- Prophecy (1929), p.65
"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove:
Firstly, That at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will obtain full universal control, and that it will then shortly be"set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions.
Secondly, It will prove that he whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new
Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date; because the overthrow of these Gentile governments is directly caused by his dashing them to pieces as a potter's vessel (Psa. 2:9; Rev. 2:27), and establishing in their stead his own righteous government.
Thirdly, It will prove that some time before the end of A.D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will be glorified with the Head; because every member is to reign with Christ, being a joint-heir with him of the Kingdom, and it cannot be fully "set up" without every member.
Fourthly, It will prove that from that time forward Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down of the Gentiles, but shall arise from the dust of divine disfavor, to honor; because the "Times of the Gentiles" will be fulfilled or completed.
Fifthly, It will prove that by that date, or sooner, Israel's blindness will begin to be turned away; because their "blindness in part" was to continue only "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25), or, in other words, until the full number from among the Gentiles, who are to be members of the body or bride of Christ, would be fully selected.
Sixthly, It will prove that the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy; and then men will learn to be still, and to know that Jehovah is God and that he will be exalted in the earth. (Psa. 46:10) The condition of things spoken of in symbolic language as raging waves of the sea, melting earth, falling mountains and burning heavens will then pass away, and the "new heavens and new earth" with their peaceful blessings will begin to be recognized by trouble-tossed humanity. But the Lord's Anointed and his rightful and righteous authority will first be recognized by a company of God's children while passing through the great tribulation--the class represented by m and t on the Chart of the Ages (see also pages 235 to 239, Vol. I); afterward, just at its close, by fleshly Israel; and ultimately by mankind in general.
Seventhly, It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34)--and fully consume the power of these kings. Its own power and dominion will be established as fast as by its varied influences and agencies it crushes and scatters the "powers that be"--civil and ecclesiastical--iron and clay." --The Time is at Hand (1889), pp. 76-78.
"Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1915, with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." -- The Time is at Hand (1912 edition), p. 101 § 1
"The Watch Tower, and its companion publications of the Society, for forty years emphasized the fact that 1914 would witness the establishment of God’s kingdom and the complete glorification of the church. During that period of forty years God’s people on earlh were carrying on a witness work, which work was foreshadowed by Elijah and John the Baptist. All of the Lord’s people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord’s people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ‘prophecies’ had not been fulfllled.
One wearing sackcloth usually puts it on himself. God’s people on earth, after the reproach that came upon them following 1914, put sackcloth upon themselves as an evidence of mourning. (Lam. 2 : 10) This is proven by what appeared in The Watch Tower." -- Light, Volume I, p.194.
"The campaign is briefly, yet graphically, described in the prophecy, verses 40 to 44; and being completed in 1799, marks, according to the Prophet’s own words, the beginning of the “time of the end”." --The Harp of God, p.229
"Twelve-hundred sixty years from A. D. 539 brings us to 1799-another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of “the time of the end”." --The Harp of God, p. 230
"There are two important dates here that we must not confuse, but clearly differentiate, namely, the beginning of “the time of the end” and of “the presence of the Lord”. “The time of the end” embraces a period from A. D. 1799, as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan’s empire and the establishment of the kingdom of the Messiah. The time of the Lord’s second presence dates from 1874, as above stated. The latter period is within the first named, of course, and at the latter part of the period known as “the time of the end”." --The Harp of God, p. 231
"From and shortly after 1799, the date of the beginning of “‘the time of the end”, we should expect to find an increase of knowledge, particularly with reference to the Bible." --The Harp of God, p.232
"This great increase of knowledge and the tremendous running to and fro of the people in various parts of the earth without question is a fulfillment of the prophecy testifying as to “the time of the end”. These physical facts cannot be disputed and are sufficient to convince any reasonable mind that we have been in “the time of the end” since 1799." --The Harp of God, p.234
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Lies from the watchtower
by StephaneLaliberte ini am interested in getting a list of lies that the watchtower has said or wrote in the past that could actually be proven to be as such, or, for the very least, deliberately misleading.
1. in a morning worship lecture in 2015, stephen lett said .
"rejecting false stories designed to separate us from jehovah's organization.
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bennyk
Re: 1914
"As for the time of Christ’s second presence, Daniel’s prophecy is again the one that gives the chronology for it. (Dan. 4:16) It was figured out as pointing to A.D. 1914, and The Watchtower called notice to the significance of 1914 in the year 1879. " -- Watchtower 01. Nov. 1952, p. 658 § 16 (The Society taught that the Second Presence occurred in 1874 until at least 1929. (The Harp of God, p. 231; Prophecy, p.65) The Society's pre-1914 teachings regarding the "significance" of 1914 were entirely different than what the Society teaches today. See The Time is at Hand (1889), pp. 76-78.)
"Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ’s return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah’s witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur." -- Watchtower 15. June 1954, p. 370 § 4 (The Society taught that the Second Presence occurred in 1874 until at least 1929. (The Harp of God, p. 231; Prophecy, p.65))
"Regarding Bible chronology, suffice it to say that on the basis of time periods indicated in the books of Daniel and Revelation, as far back as 1877 the date 1914 was given as the time for the coming or establishing of God’s kingdom. This information was first published by the first president of the Watch Tower Society in the pamphlet The Three Worlds and shortly thereafter in the columns of The Watchtower.
So thirty-seven years before 1914 it was announced that Bible chronology pinpointed that year as the time for the beginning of God’s kingdom, even though at the time not all the details were clearly understood." -- Watchtower 15. Oct. 1956, p. 614 (Until 1922, the Society taught that Jesus had been enthroned in 1878 . See The Time is at Hand, p. 101 § 1)
"For over thirty years before that date and for half a century since, Jehovah’s witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of “the appointed times of the nations” and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule." -- Watchtower 15. Feb. 1966, p. 103 (See The Time is at Hand, p. 101 § 1)
"More than thirty-five years in advance, by help of God’s holy spirit, dedicated Bible students calculated the Gentile Times as due to expire in the early autumn of 1914, but the religious clergy of Christendom criticized them and mocked them for publishing such a Bible time schedule. But the events of 1914 silenced the critics, though they were not converted." -- Watchtower 15. Oct. 1966, p. 617 § 15 ("Silenced the critics"??? Contrast Light, Volume I, p.194.)
"As far back as 1879, the publishers of this magazine pointed to the year 1914 as a marked year in Bible prophecy, as the starting point for what the Bible calls “the time of the end.”" -- Awake! 08. Oct. 1972, p. 15 (The Society taught that the "time of the end" began in 1799 until 1929. See The Harp of God, pp. 229-234.)
"Even earlier, however, C. T. Russell wrote an article entitled “Gentile Times: When Do They End?” It was published in the Bible Examiner of October 1876, and therein Russell said: “The seven times will end in A.D. 1914.” He had correctly linked the Gentile Times with the “seven times” mentioned in the book of Daniel. (Dan. 4:16, 23, 25, 32) True to such calculations, 1914 did mark the end of those times and the birth of God’s kingdom in heaven with Christ Jesus as king. Just think of it! Jehovah granted his people that knowledge nearly four decades before those times expired." -- Yearbook 1975, p. 37 (Not true. See The Time is at Hand, p. 101 § 1)
"Today, Jehovah’s Witnesses point to the “sign” given by Jesus and look back upon 1914 as the year when his invisible presence in Kingdom power became a reality. But how could they have had advance knowledge of such a momentous event? Not because of extraordinary human wisdom. No, but because they have prayerfully studied the Scriptures, heeded God’s prophetic word and paid more than usual attention to what God’s Son foretold. (2 Peter 1:19; Hebrews 1:1, 2; 2:1) Grateful that Jehovah has ‘told them fresh things before they have appeared,’ the Witnesses are delighted to be spreading this knowledge earth wide." -- Watchtower 01. April 1984, p. 16 § 5 (They did not have "advanced knowledge." See The Time is at Hand, p. 101 § 1)
"From its first year of publication, this magazine pointed forward, by sound Scriptural reckoning, to the date 1914 as an epoch-making date in Bible chronology. So when Christ’s invisible presence began in 1914, happy were these Christians to have been found watching!" -- Watchtower 01. Dec. 1984, p. 14 § 20 ("Epoch-making"??? The Society's pre-1914 teachings regarding the "significance" of 1914 were entirely different than what the Society teaches today. Contrast The Time is at Hand, pp. 76-78. "Happy"??? Contrast Light, Volume I, p.194.)
"From 1876 onward, Jehovah’s people served notice upon the world, and particularly upon Christendom, that the Gentile Times would end in the fall of 1914. (Luke 21:24, King James Version) The clergy could not ignore this preliminary work of almost 40 years-a work corresponding to that of John the Baptizer. Those clergymen waited eagerly to pounce upon this journal’s editor should 1914 pass without any outstanding events to correspond with those about which he warned. But, oh, how they were silenced when on July 28, 1914, peace was shattered by the outbreak of World War I!" -- Watchtower 01. Sep. 1985, p. 24 § 11 ("Silenced"??? Contrast Light, Volume I, p.194.)
"Similarly, a prophecy providentially caused sincere 19th-century Bible students to be in expectation. By linking the “seven times” of Daniel 4:25 with “the times of the Gentiles,” they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914." -- Watchtower 15. Sept. 1998, p. 15. (See The Time is at Hand, p. 101 § 1)
Additionally:
"From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah’s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: “This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.” (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son’s words in a relatively short time." -- Watchtower 15. May 1984, pp. 6,7 [brackets in original] (Here the Society attributes their own false prophecy to Almighty God.)
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Help Elders poking nose in
by Formerbrother inwhat can i do when elders want to poke their nose in?.
they want to have another chat with me and my wife, but we dont want to, it just gets us down..
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bennyk
(Old post - 18.09.2009)
"Concerned" Elders once stopped by to berate my wife regarding the clinical depression with which she was suffering. I escorted them to the door.
Several months later, the PO interrupted a conversation I was having with one of the congregation members and asked when my wife and I would appreciate another shepherding call. I told him: "We won't be having one." He shuffled his feet and stated that he and another Elder wished to have a shepherding call with us. I told him: "Yes, I understood you. We'll not be having a 'shepherding call.'" To this he reponded that "the Society says we have to do this to encourage you..." After a considerable pause, I replied: "Exactly. 'To encourage us.' And that's why we won't be having one." He wandered away...
No "fallout." I denounced the PO and his sidekick when the CO made his next appearance. They never asked again.
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Do You Care If A World Leader Had An Affair Before Taking Office?
by minimus ini don’t care about it unless someone runs on a record of being a model family man or woman.. does it bother you if a president or princess or top government official “cheats “??
?.
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bennyk
Ordinarily, not much.
However, it does bother me that Tweeto the Clown intends to screw most of the country...
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March 2018 Broadcast - When quotes become rumors
by Listener inthis months broadcast is presented by losche and he discusses the need for trust in the fds.
the following is transcribed from the 12.30 mark.. satan also has the scheme to spread rumors about our brothers including the faithful slave.
the method of spreading rumors is not new.
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bennyk
And if one were to alter this transcription by substituting "Roman Curia" and "Papacy" for "Faithfull and Discreet Slave", and showed it to Witnesses -- How would they respond?
They would be astonished and repulsed by the audacity of the Roman Catholic Church.
"Pot, meet Kettle."
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Apostate is an easy excuse
by Formerbrother init seems to me that if there is something that any jw doesnt want anybody to look into, then they can just say the one word apostate, and nobody wil look at it.. this is rather convenient.. what if it is the truth, still dont even look at it to find out?.
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bennyk
And yet, what of this counsel from the divinely-appointed Faithful and Discreet Slave /*sarcasm*/?
"We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God’s Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination."
(THE TRUTH that leads to ETERNAL LIFE, p.13)