bennyk

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Posts by bennyk

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  15

  "Generation" - Just Making It Up?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think you have to wonder if the watchtower society has degenerated to the point where they don't.

  even bother to research the bilge they print and they just make up whatever gets them by.. what did jesus mean by "this generation"?

  anyone can read matt.

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  bennyk

  1975 wasn't an "oral thing" : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/4165/1.ashx
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  8

  Teachings re: "this generation" (Matt. 24: 34 bzw. Luk. 21: 32)

  by bennyk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  russell taught that "this generation" referred to people in general, who were living at a significant time in history:.

  the battle of armageddon pp.

  603-605. but understanding genea here, as elsewhere, to mean generation,.

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  bennyk

  Was this a one time only thought or statement or did they have a record of using this as a core belief ??

  The only other reference to "this generation" being composed of the "Anointed" as an official teaching which I found was this:

  Life (1929), p.330
  Jesus indicated that the true followers of Christ who would compose the remnant on
  earth at the end of the world would observe these things, and that, if continuing faithful to
  the end, they would see the kingdom of God established in complete glory: “Verily I say unto
  you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” (Matt. 24: 34) And then for
  the further encouragement of the faithful remnant he said : “And when these things begin to
  come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.“-
  Luke 21: 28.

  Reasonably, the words recorded at Luke 21:28 could be meaningful only if the foretold redemption occurred during the lifetime of the Christians who first saw "these things begin to come to pass" -- emphatically not several human generations later. However, because the Watch Tower Society had connected their teaching equating the "this generation" and the "Anointed" with Luke 21:28, the Watch Tower soon stated:

  W 01. Nov. 1930, p.332
  Speaking of world happenings since A. D. 1914, Jesus said (and his words apply to
  Christians living since that date) : “When ye see these things come to pass [as prophesied], know ye that the
  kingdom of God is nigh at hand.” (Luke 21: 31) So, inside the lifetime of the present living generation the
  Lord Jesus will put into effect for all mankind the value of his ransom sacrifice which he laid down for all. (Brackets in original)

  This became the "New Light" which continued to shine until November 1995.
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  8

  Teachings re: "this generation" (Matt. 24: 34 bzw. Luk. 21: 32)

  by bennyk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  russell taught that "this generation" referred to people in general, who were living at a significant time in history:.

  the battle of armageddon pp.

  603-605. but understanding genea here, as elsewhere, to mean generation,.

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  bennyk

  Russell taught that "this generation" referred to people in general, who were living at a significant time in history:

  The Battle of Armageddon pp. 603-605
  But understanding genea here, as elsewhere, to mean generation,
  and recognizing that our Lord's words were a
  prophecy covering the entire Gospel age, we have no difficulty
  in understanding the statement to mean--"This generation
  [which will witness the signs inquired for by the
  apostles and just enumerated by our Lord--namely, the
  darkening of the sun and moon and the falling of the
  stars]--this generation shall not pass away until all these
  things be fulfilled." In other words, the signs mentioned will
  occur within a generation-epoch in the close of the age. [...]
  A "generation" might be reckoned as equivalent to a century
  (practically the present limit) or one hundred and
  twenty years, Moses' lifetime and the Scripture limit. (Gen. 6:3)
  Reckoning a hundred years from 1780, the date of the
  first sign, the limit would reach to 1880; and, to our understanding,
  every item predicted had begun to be fulfilled at
  that date; the "harvest" or gathering time beginning October
  1874; the organization of the Kingdom and the taking
  by our Lord of his great power as the King in April 1878,
  and the time of trouble or "day of wrath" which began October
  1874, and will cease about 1915; and the sprouting
  of the fig tree. Those who choose might without inconsistency
  say that the century or generation might as properly
  reckon from the last sign, the falling of the stars, as from the
  first, the darkening of the sun and moon: and a century beginning
  1833 would be still far from run out. Many are living
  who witnessed the star-falling sign. Those who are
  walking with us in the light of present truth are not looking
  for things to come which are already here, but are waiting
  for the consummation of matters already in progress. Or,
  since the Master said, "When ye shall see all these things,"
  and since "the sign of the Son of Man in heaven," and the
  budding fig tree, and the gathering of "the elect" are
  counted among the signs, it would not be inconsistent to
  reckon the "generation" from 1878 to 1914--36 1/2 years--
  about the average of human life today.

  Rutherford altered this teaching in 1927 (Remember! "New Creation" = "Anointed"):

  W 15. Feb. 1927, p. 62
  Question: In Matthew 24:34 Jesus said: "Verily I
  say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
  these things be fulfilled." What did he mean by "this
  generation" ?
  Answer: It could hardly be said that he meant any
  human being living on the earth at that time. He was
  giving testimony concerning things that were to transspire
  at the end of the world. That was a long way off.
  No generation of the human race has ever existed as
  long as a thousand years. It follows then that Jesus
  must have meant something else. What could he have
  meant ? At the Jordan Jehovah started a new generation,
  a new creation, of which Christ Jesus is the Head.
  Jesus selected twelve disciples, who were with him for
  three and one-half years. Eleven of these we have
  every reason to believe constitute a part of that new creation.
  In 1 Peter 2:9 the apostle, speaking to the church
  of course, referred to those who are faithful. The irresistible
  conclusion therefore is that Jesus referred to
  the new creation when he said: "This generation shall
  not pass until all these things be fulfilled." This then
  would be a strong indication that some members of the
  new creation will be on the earth at the time of Armageddon.

  After Rutherford's death, the teaching was again altered, "generation" no longer synonymous with "anointed" ("new creation"):

  W 01. July 1942, p.204 par. 43
  So too after the winter of Armageddon the remnant
  and their companions will come forth from their
  protected place under God’s hiding and enter into the
  glorious season of the Kingdom in its undisputed
  power over earth. (Job 37: 22-24) Pointing to the
  events of our time since 1914 Jesus said : "Behold the
  fig tree, and all the trees ; when they now shoot forth,
  ye see and know of your own selves that summer is
  now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these
  things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God
  is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation
  [including the remnant] shall not pass away till
  all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:29-32) (Brackets in original)

  The teaching became more clearly defined in 1949 (and remained so until the major change in 1995):

  W 15. July 1949, p. 215 par. 19
  The generation of Jesus’ earthly days did not
  thus see him arriving in Kingdom power. But that
  generation was a prophetic illustration. It has its
  modern counterpart in our generation from A.D. 1914
  forward. This generation is the one that sees the Son
  of man coming with the clouds of heaven as foretold
  by Daniel, because in 1914, the year marking the end
  of the Gentile times, Jehovah God gave the Kingdom
  to him whose right it is.

  (I hope someone will find this interesting!)
• 
  28

  An email from my Dad on Bible Chronology - Armegeddon's arrival

  by eclipse in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i cannot provide any background info on my dad except to say that he is not an attender anymore, but is not apostate.. years ago, my dad showed me why he thought 1975 was wrong, and he gave me a date like 2011, 2012...back in 2004.. it actually made sense to me back then, and obve's posts reminded me of my dad's calculations..... only my dad's calculations were not based on addition or multiplying of random crazy numbers, .

  but actually were logical assumptions based on the scriptures as he understood them.. here is his email to me...it might be lengthy, but it is easy to follow and understand.

  (sorry for the large font, it was the font he used in the email.

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  bennyk

  And, of course, there is nothing scriptural in the idea that 6 000 years has some cosmic significance... The WTS hasn't even mentioned the concept of a 7 000-year Creative Day for the past twenty years or so (if memory serves).
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  3

  New understanding of generation: Another repeat of 1914

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  no, this is not another thread on who said what at the annual meeting but.... i had a thought that what the gb are doing is resurrecting the old 1914 doctrine.

  well, even though they left the door open for more anointed to join, the average age of the remnant must be in the 80s.. .

  what's the difference between this understanding and the 1914 generation?

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  bennyk

  now Jesus is not talking about everyone who lived or experienced 1914, he's limited it to those who were of the anointed at that time.

  No. The "New Light" would seem to imply that the phrase "this Generation" refers to the Anointed in general, without any connection to a specific year.
• 
  29

  The Elders came by yesterday.

  by Save My Soul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the loving elders came by and asked me to come back to the hall with my family.

  they sincerely believe that the end is near.

  these changes are evidence of it.

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  bennyk

  yeah -- "the End is near!"

  or: "deliverance is at hand!" (here I shamelessly plug an old thread. )
• 
  101

  2008 District Convention Theme

  by R.F. in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay, so it should be very soon when the theme for the 2008 convention will be made public.

  what do you think the them will be?

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  bennyk

  2008 "Divine Indoctrination District Convention"
• 
  34

  A coup against the Watchtower?

  by Dead Man Joaquin in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i believe that if enough "anointed" get fed up with the hypocrisy of the leadership, a coup may be likely if not inevitable.. .

  what i've been wondering is: how would such a scenario play out in real life?

  i'm sure we can agree that all the organizational power ultimately rests in the hands of the eleven little men in brooklyn known collectively as the governing body.

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  bennyk

  Yes; there is dissension. What of it? When an "anointed" disagrees with official WTS dogma, he soon departs or is expelled.

  Remember: Two-thirds of the Governing Body can disfellowship the other third and all the other anointed combined.

  Ergo: Expect no coup, just dry-rot. (Not with a bang, but a whimper.)
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  23

  Elder is calling friends, JC any day now!

  by BurnTheShips in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  yes, i have been working on "the fade" since before my baby was born in january and trying to keep as low a profile as i can.

  will be moving out of the neighborhood soon and i had hoped to disappear.

  so anyways, leaving the dubs has not made me lose my faith in god or christ.

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  bennyk

  (From the Flock book, pp. 94,95:)

  If it is learned that a person has taken up association with

  another religious organization, the matter should be investigated,

  and if verified, a committee should be formed .

  If it is clearly established that the person has joined

  another religion and intends to remain with it, the

  elders would make a brief announcement to the congregation

  that such one has disassociated himself. (w86

  10/15 p . 31)

  So merely leaving a church building may not be a problem (especially if you point out the above to them).

  However, it really all depends on your local Body of Elders (i.e. your mileage may vary).
• 
  60

  We've been invited to a JC

  by besty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those of you don't know our story sweet pea and i stopped attending all meetings quite abruptly about 4 months ago.

  since then we have had a few ill-advised conversations with jw friends and family stating our reasons - sometimes in emails.

  also sp emailed a new friend on another forum her experiene with going to a new church.

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  bennyk

  Write a calm letter to numerous friends stating that you are concerned that the Watch Tower Society has become a spiritual tyrant and an impediment to your relationship to God and Christ, and ask for your friends' viewpoint on this matter. That way, when the announcement is made that "Besty is no longer..." your friends will have favourable grist for their speculation-mill -- they will automatically conclude that your letter to (one of) them was the specific cause of your dismissal.