Posts by adelmaal

66

Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

testing this thread.

well, after three times, it finally worked.

why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?

adelmaal

The next question would be, by implication, "Is the Bible the only book in the world that can correctly teach us about God and have a valid relationship with the Divine?" This is not a ludicrous question, because millions of people around the world and thru history are just as convinced that this is so, the Bible notwithstanding. And since believing what you want about the Bible and within the Bible is apparently OK, then why does it not hold true that other writings and scriptures about God are just as valid for individual acceptance and interpretation?
How about the Koran? The Vedas? The Buddhist writings? The Torah? The Gnostic manuscripts? The Book of Mormon? and others? If believing what you want from the Bible is valid, then why is believing what you want from books outside the Bible not of equal value? And just who gets to decide which is valid, and which is not, since you say interpretation is an individual matter? I am very serious here.

I, myself, have often thought about that as well. I'm not sure. I am inclined to believe that the Bible is God's one and only word and Jesus was sent to deliver God's message. I also believe that people can have a relationship with God separate from the Bible since there was a time when this was the case prior to its writing.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that God provides us with what we need for salvation and it is up to us as individuals to seek him out. I trust that he ensures that each of us gets the opportunity to get to know him and his son. If, for no fault of our own, we do not receive that opportunity in our lifetime I do not believe God will hold it against us. His kindness is undeserved and Jesus' sacrifice was for all mankind.

What do you think?

10

Is anyone aware of a concise, definitive work on religious freedom?

by Check_Your_Premises in

i am looking for something that talks about the importance of a person being able to worship free from coersion.

the idea being that if a person requires coersion to be faithful, what does that say about their faith?

therefore the best way to argue for/against a religion or doctrine is through a free and open exchange of debate and ideas.

adelmaal

I hope you find what you are needing. I believe it took Ray Franz 700 to 800 pages to explain this in his book "In Search of Christian Freedom" to explain this concept

66

Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

testing this thread.

well, after three times, it finally worked.

why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?

adelmaal

Rod:

You realize, of course, there are a lot of Religious Organizations out there who claim that they, and they alone, are the one right religion, and the only pathway to God. You can't do it on your own, because you have to do it thru their Organization. And if God is on their side only, then God will reveal the correct interpretation of the Bible solely by and thru that one right Religion. That's their argument, not mine. I am trying to make the point of just how spurious this whole notion really is!

I definitely see where you are coming from. I choose not to believe God is working through an organization or a specific religion. I don't believe that any religion or organization that sets itself up as God's sole channel for salvation or for truth has done so as a result of God's divine direction. I don't believe the Bible encourages us to worship God through an organization on earth and I don't believe it teaches use to take what is fed to us by man at face value. We have the Bible, we have Jesus' example and we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. It is for each of us individually to draw upon that personally. I agree with your line of reasoning that the whole notion of salvation based on an exact interpretation of the Bible or based on membership to a specific religion is ridiculous! I think your points are valid and the JWs are a long way from understanding the true meaning of God's word.

I believe a personal relationship with God is what is important. I believe that what is in our hearts shows through in the way we conduct ourselves and in the way that we treat others. We are all brothers and sisters and we are all bound together. We should act like it and not separate ourselves from eachother because we believe differently. I believe Jesus left a guide for us to follow and that is all we need. It's simple for me. I do go to church but I do not believe my church is the one true source for spiritual guidance and salvation. They do not claim to be either. They actually work with other churches side by side to encourage spiritual freedom. I take what I believe to be from the Bible and I leave the rest behind.

13

My Sister and my JW Mom...

by mrsjones5 in

jw
friends

my sister was expecting a baby, due the first week of july.

she lost it about 2 weeks ago, on a friday.

my mother call me frantic, asking if i had spoken to my sister.

adelmaal

My heart goes out to your sister and your family. She was so close and she has lost that little life inside her... I hope your mom can put her personal feelings aside long enough to realize that no matter how she feels personally it is your sister that is experiencing something very traumatic and sad. She has lost her little one and she is sick. The last thing she should have to do is worry about your mom or her personal issues on top of everything she must be going through. I am glad you are going out there to support her and I hope your mom wises up and starts allowing your sister to work through this in whatever way she can. Your sister is entitled to be hurt, angry, selfish, sad, pampered, etc. Your mom needs to know that now more than ever she needs to put her personal feelings aside and demonstrate the fruitages of the spirit!

(((HUGS)))

19

I don't know how to ask this ?

by boy@crossroads in

ok so anyway i have been fading for a little over a year now.

during that time i have been primarily focusing on improving my social skills: reconnecting with old high school pals, trying to make sense of the world, trying to connect with others, opening myself up to new belief systems, activities.

now that i am becoming more comfortable around people i am considering pursuing a relationship with someone.

adelmaal

Try reading "Men are from Mars; Women are from Venus". I, like others have mention, have been treated much better by worldly men when dating than I ever was by JW men.

For me it was important that the man treat me like gold initially. It was important that I know he wanted to impress me. My husband paid for our initial dates (eventually I started offering to chip in as well), he planned them out, he opened doors for me, he pulled out chairs for me, he drove, etc. It was wonderful. It made me feel really special and at the same time did not make me feel obligated or committed in anyway. I just felt cared for and I think that's important for women. In turn he felt he was pleasing me and making me happy. No JW ever went to such lengths and it was great having the perspective that we were dating and there was no need to feel obligated. We met on match.com and I think that allowed us to get to know eachother well via email and on the phone prior to deciding whether or not we even wanted to meet face to face.

Anyways, the book I suggested is light reading and it just helps to communicate the differences between men and women. It also brings out the different ways in which we can provide what the other needs in a relationship.

14

Pray to Jesus to God or Both? (Not Just Yet Another Trinity Thread...)

by adelmaal in

i just read another post that touched upon praying directly to jesus and it reminded me of the other day at church.

i don't know if it's just my jw roots or what but one of the men who said the prayer in church prayed directly to jesus.

he kept using jesus' name in prayer speaking directly to him on our behalf, he brought out that no other name is higher than that of jesus and when he closed he did so in the name of jesus.

adelmaal

I just read another post that touched upon praying directly to Jesus and it reminded me of the other day at church. I don't know if it's just my JW roots or what but one of the men who said the prayer in church prayed directly to Jesus. He kept using Jesus' name in prayer speaking directly to him on our behalf, he brought out that no other name is higher than that of Jesus and when he closed he did so in the name of Jesus. It struck me as wierd! Praying directly to Jesus, exalting his name above that of God (Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah, whatever your preference) and then praying in the name of Jesus.

What to you all think? If you do pray do you pray directly to God, Yahweh, Jehovah, the Lord, etc. in Jesus' name. Do you pray directly to a Godhead (including God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus) in Jesus' name? Do you pray to each individual on differing occasions depending on your mood? I'm curious.

What do you think the Bible encourages? Prayer to God in Jesus' name, prayer to Jesus or to God in Jesus' name or prayer to God and Jesus in Jesus' name?

66

Does the Bible interpret itself, or a fiddle you can play any tune with?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

testing this thread.

well, after three times, it finally worked.

why are there so many religions all professing belief in the bible, yet all of them interpret the bible differently?

adelmaal

Who said we had to understand the entire Bible? Who said we all had to agree on its meaning for that matter?

I believe God is a person and the Bible encourages each of us to have a unique and personal relationship with him and his son. We are all individuals and we all have individual relationships with each other. I say the same should be the case with God and Jesus. Each of us will interpret portions of the Bible differently just as each of us interprets portions of communication, stories, television programs, etc. differently. It doesn't mean we need to get all bent out of shape over it because we don't all see things or understand things the same way. Heck, I read some of what's in the Bible and just think "how does that make sense..." But I endeavour to get from it what I can and I try to apply what seems right to me in my life and in my relationship with God and with Jesus. I don't believe any more is required of me (based on my interpretation - lol).

9

After Reading CoC It Seems This Could Apply to Dub Loyalty to the Org - LOL

by adelmaal in

jw
friends

the below analogy made me think about how in coc whenever a new article comes out in the wt the dubs loyally obey without questioning whether or not it has any bible basis or whether or nor it is morally right (i.e.

disassociated ones to be shunned just as disfellowshipped ones, ones who personally disagree with any of the established beliefs (even if they are not outwardly promoting such disagreement) are to be considered apostates and should be disfellowshipped, etc.).

it's amazing how the org can say it's black even if it's white and blind faith causes the dubs not to question it.

adelmaal

Hence all the various "local rules" that seem to pop up all over the place. Some CO or DO or BOE liked it done a certain way and that becomes the modus operandi

So true.

9

After Reading CoC It Seems This Could Apply to Dub Loyalty to the Org - LOL

by adelmaal in

jw
friends

the below analogy made me think about how in coc whenever a new article comes out in the wt the dubs loyally obey without questioning whether or not it has any bible basis or whether or nor it is morally right (i.e.

disassociated ones to be shunned just as disfellowshipped ones, ones who personally disagree with any of the established beliefs (even if they are not outwardly promoting such disagreement) are to be considered apostates and should be disfellowshipped, etc.).

it's amazing how the org can say it's black even if it's white and blind faith causes the dubs not to question it.

adelmaal

The below analogy made me think about how in CoC whenever a new article comes out in the WT the dubs loyally obey without questioning whether or not it has any Bible basis or whether or nor it is morally right (i.e. disassociated ones to be shunned just as disfellowshipped ones, ones who personally disagree with any of the established beliefs (even if they are not outwardly promoting such disagreement) are to be considered apostates and should be disfellowshipped, etc.). It's amazing how the Org can say it's black even if it's white and blind faith causes the dubs not to question it. It's crazy how true that is and at the same time how I didn't even realize it while I was in. I ended up in the mindset where I just "assumed" everything printed came from the Bible because that is what I had been taught to believe.

Theocratic Policies

Start with a cage containing five apes.

In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold water.

After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all the apes are sprayed with cold water. This continues through several more attempts. Pretty soon, when another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes all try to prevent it.

Now, turn off the cold water. Remove one ape from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest ape.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes, which have been sprayed with cold water, have been replaced. Nevertheless, no ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not?

Because that's the way they've always done it and that's the way it's always been around here.

And that's how theocratic policy begins....

61

She keeps making eyes at me but I'm not interested. :S

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

at work there is this girl there who keeps making eyes at me, but i'm not interested.

on top of that, she keeps trying to strike up conversations and she goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on... its amazing!

never a pause between sentences and barely a any space between words... just a very very long series of words coming out of her mouth non-stop.

adelmaal

Yeah that is it... when pondering the mysteries of love and romance, write a c program.
Since it's object-oriented and uses a period as the object method operator, so I'm thinking it would have to be C#.

I might have understood it if it were written in VB So much easier for me to read Yes, I am a nerd as well...

Anywhoo...

Personally, I have experienced the staring thing from someone at work and it drove me crazy! We actually started out as friends and I could tell he was really starting to get interested. I just severly limited the time I spent with him. I spoke only regarding work and ended the conversation once work was no longer the subject with "I've really got to get back to work". As for the staring it eventually bugged me to the point where I said, "I would prefer it if you could not stare at me. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I know you don't mean to but it's one of my pet peeves." He took it ok and eventually he lost interest.

You'd probably have to tell me to stop staring too though Else... I know I would be making googly eyes at you