besty

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Posts by besty

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  6

  NEW NAME FOR THE WT MAGAZINE!

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the uk, there was a popular t.v.

  show called the only way is essex - a documentary type programme about that area which is close to london.

  the programme's name got abbreviated to its initials - towie, and that is how it is now named.. since the org's uk branch is moving to essex, perhaps the uk version of the magazine will be renamed, the watchtowie..

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  besty

  lol - very dry :-)
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  78

  Can you prove Jesus existed outside of Bible (so called) evidence?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought i'd done a thread on this before but can't find it.. so.

  did jesus actually exist?.

  without using the bible i'd like to see obvious proof..

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  besty

  I asked Leolaia this question a while ago via PM: (she also went into some detail on the thread linked below) - skip to the last 4 words of her reply for the executive summary :-)

  Was just reading http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/148754/1/Jesus-Yeshua-Joshua-paralleled-with-Horus-my-final-link-here-on-XMas#.UtjlimR_t90 and wondered if you had made any posts on the historicity or otherwise of Jesus.

  Her reply:

  I don't think I have posted any detailed threads for or against the existence of a historical Jesus; I am somewhat agnostic on the subject, although I lean towards Wells' assessment (against the mythicists) that while the gospels are literary compositions with the bulk of their narrative content being "fiction" (informed to some extent by mythic tropes and to a greater extent through haggadaic OT exegesis), there probably was a historical figure named Jesus who was crucified in Jerusalem at the time of Pontius Pilate's tenure.

  The synoptic sayings tradition in particular cannot be reduced to the mythicist schemes (what does the ethical/moral teaching have to do with the Hellenistic "savior god" mysteries?) and Paul shows some close familiarity with this sayings tradition. I think the best explanation for this is that the teaching has nothing to do with the "gospel of the cross", preceding it as a reflection of the teaching of a historical Jesus and with the kergyma of Jesus as "savior" arising after his death (in part through an exegesis of the Suffering Servant songs in Deutero-Isaiah) as a rationalization of the unexpected execution of the apostles' teacher.

  The gospels (aside from the Gospel of Thomas) represent a latter stage when the teaching (variously interpreted and modified by the different evangelists) has combined with the "gospel of the cross", especially prominent in the western Pauline branch of Christianity (where the ethical teaching has receded dramatically in the face of the personal role of Jesus as Lord and savior). The Jewish-Christian branch in the east, particularly represented by Peter and James (and reflected in such first-century writings as MATTHEW and the DIDACHE and such second-century writings as the ASCENTS OF JAMES and the KERGYMA PETROU), continued to stress the moral/ethical teaching and its halakhic value. The early gnostic branch of the south (particularly in Samaria and Egypt, but also in Syria), on the other hand, made Jesus a Savior by virtue of his teaching, i.e. esoteric gnosis.
  
  I have some threads I have done in the past on the historicity of the gospel narratives (such as on the stories of Jesus' nativity, the 40-days temptation in the wilderness, the stories about Judas Iscariot, the trial scene with Pontius Pilate, etc.), but I'm not sure if that is what you meant. In short, the bulk of the stories are composed out of material from the OT, or turn parables (with their latent hyperbole) into miracle stories, or represent theological reworkings of possible historical stories. In general, the appearance seems to be that Jesus' later followers knew very little about Jesus' birth and childhood and very little about his trial and execution. This actually is to be expected since these followers were not around when Jesus was born and according to the gospels themselves, they all fled when Jesus was arrested. On the other hand, they seem to be very familiar with the teaching and that is what made the impression. What I should point out however is that I believe that many scholars' attempts to reconstruct who the historical Jesus "really was" and what he believed are illusory. Each scholar constructs a Jesus in his own image.

  I have my own thoughts on what might be more probable than other schemes (such as I favor a more apocalyptic Jesus than JD Crossan allows), but in the end it is all speculation.
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  21

  The dangers of atheism

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religious intolerance to a level only dreamed of by the gb.... .

  http://t.co/qu2cp3zikd.

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  besty

  thanks for getting back to me, I thought so.
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  21

  The dangers of atheism

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religious intolerance to a level only dreamed of by the gb.... .

  http://t.co/qu2cp3zikd.

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  besty

  Atheists don't have an overarching moral system to guide them, so I'd be rather concerned about what they had personally decided was acceptable or not to do to another person.

  Have you always been an idiot, or is this a recent development?
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  21

  The dangers of atheism

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religious intolerance to a level only dreamed of by the gb.... .

  http://t.co/qu2cp3zikd.

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  besty

  If I was alone on a dark street in a foreign country I'd rather encounter a bunch of atheists than a bunch of religious fanatics - know what i mean?
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  21

  The dangers of atheism

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religious intolerance to a level only dreamed of by the gb.... .

  http://t.co/qu2cp3zikd.

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  besty

  :-) steve2

  WRT the OP i think the GB have been pretty clear on their future wishes for non-JW's - they are no different to other fundamentalist groups.
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  9

  The final shackle thrown off

  by moley in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  i've been out for 13yrs but its still funny how some things are so ingrained, but no more.

  i had a full english today complete with the devils offering "black pudding" and how mighty tasty it was..

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  besty

  black pudding - hell yeah.
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  21

  The dangers of atheism

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religious intolerance to a level only dreamed of by the gb.... .

  http://t.co/qu2cp3zikd.

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  besty

  come on people - this stuff is easy to find - stop being lazy

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_New_Zealand
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  21

  The dangers of atheism

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  religious intolerance to a level only dreamed of by the gb.... .

  http://t.co/qu2cp3zikd.

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  besty

  last sentence for blasphemy in Denmark was 1946 :-)

  http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/11/danish-blasphemy-law-questioned-by-church-minister
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  7

  Interesting research - Co-evolution of pathogen and host (Helicobactor pylori & Homo sapiens)

  by cantleave in

  1. social
  2. current

  data-dog's post about his possible ulcer reminded of an article i read today.. helicobacter pylori a common pathogen that is found in the human gut, well known for producing some nasty ailments including ulcers can also cause stomach (gastric cancer) cancer.

  one gods marvellous creations .

  whats has been of interest to scientists for some time is that there is no correlation between the occurrence of gastric cancer and the percentage population infected with the h. pylori.

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  besty

  or - ....don't move to far from home :-)