cyborgVision

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Posts by cyborgVision

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  68

  The evidence AGAINST evolution

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  no, sorry, i won't be providing any.

  this is a thread for those that have done some research and concluded that evolution is not how various species came to exist.. have you done the research?

  do you believe that species exist as a result of god's direct creation?

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  cyborgVision

  Abaddon,
  
  Controlled imagination is a part of any scientific process. You have to make distinction between imagination as in day-dreaming and informed-intuition imagination, there?s your difference.

  I personally do not want to be dragged into this discussion as it evokes strong spirits on both sides.
  My intention to post on this thread was, and I want to reiterate, to give some helpful pointers about critically approaching any subject and not to promote my cherished belief system (So let?s leave it at that).
  
  Reason being is that evolution just as religion can generate almost religion-like following.
  Now I know that this statement is bound to attract some criticism but it is true. Though I agree that evolutionists do use scientific method of investigation with an assumption of everything being explainable through natural processes and any suggestion of any kind of design (even if we are talking about intelligence in any shape and form, intelligent universe, nature, etc) is consider scientific heresy, and anyone daring to explore these alternative is bound to be frowned upon by community of his peers. And this is a hard, cold truth about the matter.
  On the other hand many religionists do not engage into rational thinking, hence many of their argument fall short of explaining anything but merely reaffirming evolutionists in belief that all religionists are ?incapable retards?. I know this is hurting comment but lets call things what they are.

  I?m not saying again that I do not believe in some parts of evolution theory but just as religion I can not accept it per se or in its entirety if you will.
  
  My opinion is formed solely on what I know and what I?ve heard form other colleagues (some of them also being biologists)

  Just a question Abaddon. Since you are such a staunch supporter of evolution may I ask you if you are an expert in the field or are you still a student?

  Just a piece of advice to everyone: Do not read too much into whatever you read question everything until you are satisfied. Anything can be explained so that it makes sense. The question is though does it make facts?
  There?s your challenge: to find hard, cold truth. Which means first collect data, then from these data collect facts, once you have facts established then you have information, many factual information start forming the truth.

  If this help to anyone I?ll be happiest man alive :o)
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  68

  The evidence AGAINST evolution

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  no, sorry, i won't be providing any.

  this is a thread for those that have done some research and concluded that evolution is not how various species came to exist.. have you done the research?

  do you believe that species exist as a result of god's direct creation?

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  cyborgVision

  Hello Abaddon
  I appreciate your comments, I do not want to go into circular argument here as in many instances such matters are subject to interpretation and presuppositions as in any science just as you have eloquently pointed it out.
  

  I simply stated in as brief terms as possible my personal opinion. Now I am not biologist. (I do not want to disclose my profession as it may reveal my identity.) I was simply giving some helpful pointers about critically approaching the subject. Whether one likes to believe it or not evolution is just as hypothetical and plausible as many other explanations and is subject to a range of other assumptions about early earth. Or as one of my colleagues likes to say that "design theory doesn?t necessarily involve an entity we label as god ? if in doubt use your imagination"
  This only goes to show you that there is still quite a hole to fill which gives freedom for latitude of different opinions.
  
  On the other hand just because something can be explained in certain terms doesn?t necessarily mean that is how it happened. Lawyers take advantage of it all the time.

  I personally respect evolution as well as any other science out of my field of expertise but at the same time I recognize its weaknesses just as I see weaknesses in creationist?s view.

  Reason why I mention Ameba was because I can see how many students easily make judgment call that just because it is small it gotta be simple. If that assumption on my part was insulting about this kind of a forum I truly apologize.

  Hope that answers your question.
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  39

  I'll be disfellowshipped next week

  by sass_my_frass in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  cyborgVision

  Take long walks, call a friend from pre-WT times, go to theater or read a book you always wanted but never had a time to check it out. Do that all this before you start thinking, right what just happened.
  And come here when you are free, there?s always someone to talk to, and imagine what it could be someone on the other side of the planet. Now how cool is that. When did you have something like that being a cog in WT.

  And tell us more (if you can) what's the issue? Can we help?
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  33

  Did you ever see a TRULY happy JW?

  by cyborgVision in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i mean seriously, most of us have been inside for a number of years.

  so during all this time did you ever see happy person or a family or were you ever truly happy there, even for a brief period of time?

  if you were happy, when was it?

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  cyborgVision

  Good question Golf. There was a time when I felt something but strangely enough meeting were usually agony for me listening someone?s dogmatic arguments with his 1/10th to say about one half developed public speaking skills. I don?t mean to be derogatory but in reality that?s what it was. The only time I could say I was happy was at the end of the meeting, I?ve often analyzed myself why was that the case.

  My sort of conclusion was that, I was glad I?ve made it through and it was time to go home. Actually, the only time when meeting was really interesting to me was when I had some part. I know this may sound very egoistic but I do not mean that my speaking skill were that of an expert either. What it was, I think is that I actually had something to do and had legitimate reason to stand up and basically do something.

  But having said all that I remember at very beginning, when I just started seriously studying bible I did like meetings and felt strange sort of peace, but I?m afraid that was gone after a year of two. Hope that answers your question.
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  68

  The evidence AGAINST evolution

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  no, sorry, i won't be providing any.

  this is a thread for those that have done some research and concluded that evolution is not how various species came to exist.. have you done the research?

  do you believe that species exist as a result of god's direct creation?

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  cyborgVision

  There is a lot that can be said about evolution and certainly there are some valid points that need to be investigated further. One thing that is clear to certain extent is that micro-evolution is happening within species, i.e. minor changes in some physical characteristics. Also it is also valid that at least on skeleton level there are some commonalities (I wouldn't use word similarities just yet)
  
  However, it is becoming increasingly clear that mutation alone cannot account for all the diversity even if you give it a timeline of universe and not earth alone. So is there some other mechanism? Perhaps. Can small changes amount to big ones till you have entirely a new species? No one can prove it and there is no evidence for such a massive changes taking place in fosil record (not for now anyway - will they turn up? hard to imagine after 200 of search but possible).

  This is all speaking on macro level, which is fair since that?s how Charles Darwin started whole thing by observing visible similarities. Things get much more complicated though as you delve deeper and deeper into the micro level. One thing that you must not forget is that we are talking about living machines. And I am deliberately using word machines. Reason why is shear complexity of their structure, their collocation, their biological synchronization and balance of chemical reaction which is to say the least mind boggling.
  
  
  As much as we (talking generally) as humans are keen to explain it all in natural terms it becomes increasingly difficult to account for all known and unknown processes that are taking place.
  
  While in a lab you can create biological substances through guided processes it is as far from living organism as a brick is from Taj Mahal.
  
  
  The lingering question is then can we completely discount intelligent design?? Well, it is like in the court room and you are juror, if you have a reasonable doubt that it is possible to be created by itself then you have to accept possibility of intelligent design and vice versa.

  On the personal level being of scientific (though not biological) professional background I have hard time accepting evolution. Primary reason why is that is still very hypothetical and evolutionists unlike other scientists have luxury of being able to construct theory that can make enormous assumptions (dare I say assumptions upon assumption upon ?) that may or may not be accepted by their peers which often doesn?t matter because it is still but a theory.
  
  Nevertheless, it is a theory that sets scientific framework and everyone accepts it until something better comes by.
  
  
  It also has its good side in that it serves as a buffer that prevents religiosity and dogmatism overtaking our school system.

  Should you believe it?? Well it is for you to decide whether something so complex like say your TV can be created by set of natural processes. And I do mean it, Ameba is much more complicated then your TV set is. If you don?t believe try studying it and see how much you can learn about Amebas. Just because something is minute it doesn?t diminish in complexity. In fact, often contrary is the truth.

  My advice is, study and ask critical questions, scientists are not infallible. Often they are the ones that least believe their own assumptions. But hey you?ve got to make your name known doing something just as your favorite car mechanic :o)

  Keeping that in mind, be critical, just as you are now about WT doctrines and explanations.

  Happy research.
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  300

  A comment I heard tonight

  by Generic Man in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  tonight i heard one of the most cruel and twisted comments i've ever heard at the platform.

  the topic was the apocalypse and whether or not children will be slaughtered.

  through one side of his mouth, the po stated that the bible is not clear on the matter, while out the other side he pointed to all those old testament accounts where children were killed.

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  cyborgVision

  I think many JW are desensitized, or as one elder put it (I was a young lad at the time) ? if you want to progress in the truth you have to develop turtle skin. Imagine Jesus developing ?turtle skin?, pretty hard eh?

  In many conversations I?ve had with JW before I've found that great majority of them (at least in this country) don?t even feel much sympathy what their own brothers and sisters in faith are going through in other lands.

  Need I say more?
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  3

  SISTER'S CONG.....COMPARE 1CORTH 14:28..WHAT DOES SILENT MEAN IN THAT VERSE

  by vlove in

  1. jw
  2. experiences
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  cyborgVision

  To me that verse is pretty clear, being: if you speak a language that no one in congo understands then shut up until translator comes by

  And hey, I?d encourage you (absolutely ?love? that expression from my days in WT) to use text box next time and not heading alone ? just an encouragement :o)
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  46

  i told my mother that i do not desire to be associated with jws anymore and

  by drunkenpikachu in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  she totally flipped out.

  all i was trying to do was find some mutual respect for my decision but she started smacking, punching, pushing me.

  soon after, she threw the biggest tantrum and it disgusted me to see her acting in such a manner.

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  cyborgVision

  Yeah. I?d say be kind to her, she probably also thinks she failed at something while bringing you up. Give it a time, and after storm comes down introduce your girlfriend to her. I know it?s not easy, but best cure for everything is a kind human touch. After all she is your mom. :o)
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  39

  I'll be disfellowshipped next week

  by sass_my_frass in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  cyborgVision

  So you finally managed it, lol
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  29

  Just wanted to say, im going back to the meetings-----------------IM SORRY

  by vitty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  april fool

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  cyborgVision

  Just As I Thought ;)