Posts by mnb77

10

Questions about JW

by Evanescence in

hi i'm just interested in the jw's.

i'm not a jw i just want to know more about your doctrines and stuff.. do you get disfellowshipped by talking to a worldly person if so why?.

how can u jw's live without speaking to people you love who r not jw?.

mnb77

welcome, welcome, It is great to have you on the board. lots of info here. Just look and you'll go wow!

Disfellowshiped (dfsh) comes about in various ways. It depends on who knows what at the kingdome hall (KH) and it varies from each KH

mnb77

98

"I prayed for you"

by Scully in

if you aren't a "believer", does it bother you when someone says "i'll pray for you" or "i prayed for you"?.

one of my colleagues is an incredibly kind and sweet person, and i know she says it because she believes she's doing something good on my behalf.

i always say "thank you for thinking of me", because i know that's the spirit she's intending to convey and that she cares about the situation i'm in vis-a-vis my jw relatives, but she knows i no longer believe in god (at least not in the sense that she does) - i wonder does she think that a few prayers are going to change my mind?

mnb77

Okay, coming at this from a different view point, I believe in the Trinity thing and I have a catholic friend. When ever he tells me " I said a rosary for you, or any family member I have had trouble with" it kinda weirds me out. I mean I don't believe praying to mary or any of the "saints" helps me i just figure I'll talk to the creator of it all and work stuff out.

I dunno, I guess I sort of understand you issue, Oh well i think they all mean good and it takes a weight off their shoulders by saying a prayer or a rosary. Then they don't have to do anything else to help you.. Just speculation though...

mnb77

31

What do I tell my children?

by Nellie in

i have four kids - ages 18, 13, 10 and 6. .

first some clarification: i have been in the "truth" for 35 years, and although i have never been particularly active in the ministry .

for example: my 18 year old son really wants his ear pierced.

mnb77

Hey hope that first stuff helped that i posted. You might also get the children involved with another youth group (another local church that doesn't involve so much control so they can learn) and get them another copy of the bible, not the NWT. Let them explore this and what it says and not depend on the WTS to tell them what it means. this can be a beautiful learning experience. I like the NLT. it speaks in an understandable language and doesn't use tricky words to sway the meaning of what god's word says.

Another book that I read that helped me with the different translations of the bible is "God's Word into English" by Greene (i can't remember the author's first name, sorry) it is an older book published in the 60's i think (?). here are some of the stuff i found in it that helped me:

While some of us may be reluctant to relinquish old word and expressions which have acquired special meaning, we must bear in mind that the revision of these archaisms is a genuine attempt to be true to the Greek text (the same goal with the KJ translators had) by restoring for the modern reader the precise meaning intended.

Reasons for New Translations:

a. The discovery of more accurate texts in Greek and Hebrew.

b. The continual change in the English language.

c. Renewed emphasis on readily intelligible translators.

d. The new information as to the meaning of Biblical Terms.

e. Improvements in the interpretation of passages.

More Accurate Texts:

The King James and ASV were dependent on the available Hebrew manuscripts, all of which read (gives symbols) ?arim ?Cities? but the Bible scholars on occasion to wonder about this reading because the Assyrian kings whose conquering armies destroyed cities in Palestine did not do so because they ?despised cities.? There had to be some other explanation to account for this word. The answer was forthcoming in 1947 of in the spring of that year in Arab Bedouin discovered a cave in the cliffs overlooking the northwestern rim of the Dead Sea in

One of the manuscripts from Cave one was a leather scroll in Hebrew containing the entire book of Isaiah. Information gained subsequent to the discovery has shown that it dates from the second or first centuries BC, just before the Roman armies swept into southern . This very early Hebrew manuscript, preserved through the centuries by the hot, dry climate of the area reads (gives symbols) ?edim ?Witnessed, treaties? in the difficult passage in Isa. 33:8. With this new variant reading available the RSV was available to improve the sense of the passage by translating, ?The highways lie was, the wayfaring man ceases. Covenant are broken, witnessing are despised, there is no regard for man.? The parallelism of the verse could be indicated even more clearly by translating, ?Covenants are broken, treaties are despised?? Ignoring the vowels, which were not indicated from the originally reading (symbols) to (Change of symbols) is easily explained.

Renewed Emphasis on Intelligibility:

Another important reason for revision of God?s Word is the increased demand by the common people that a translation by as intelligibility as possible. A case in point is the idiomatic phrase ?children of the bride chamber? which occurs in the KJV in Matt. 9:15, Mark 2:19, and Luke 5:34. But the expression is meaningless to (or grossly misinterpreted by) the average reader, so most of the translations made in the 20 th century have striven for intelligibility by reading ?wedding guest? or friends of the bridegroom.?

The reader may wonder how new meaning can be given to words which were used in certain specific ways by people two thousand or more yeas ago. Actually the meanings for these Biblical terms are ancient; it is only our understanding for the meaning which is new. We came by this information through tens of thousands of written document discovered in Bible lands during the last 75 years the most important of these new sources of information have been the thousands of papyrus (ancient type of paper) fragments and scrolls ranging all the way back from love letters to grocery lists.

Ex:

Paul uses the adjective ataktos (I Thess. 5:14), the adverb ataktos (2 Thess. 3:6,11) and the related verb atakteo (2 Thess. 3:7). KJV and ASV translated it ?unruly, disorderly, walk or behaves disorderly.? The papyri, however, indicate the words, as paul used them, meant ?idle, idleness, be idle?. This led to the change in the RSV.

it is neat with his perspective of the dead sea scrolls and how they improved stuff in the understanding of the bible.

enough of my rambling, just try to get the children involved with some thing else so they don't feel that they will be destroyed or something like that. Be safe, follow God and rejoice always!

31

What do I tell my children?

by Nellie in

i have four kids - ages 18, 13, 10 and 6. .

first some clarification: i have been in the "truth" for 35 years, and although i have never been particularly active in the ministry .

for example: my 18 year old son really wants his ear pierced.

mnb77

It is great for you to get away from the JW's.

Start the discussion with the children about how you are getting out of the JW's. Get the book Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse by Verse by David A. Reed. This book goes over the teaching of the JW and why they don't do this or they do that. In the book it addresses Birthdays using Genesis 40:20-22 (in the prohibitive manner) as well as Matt. 14:6 and Mark 6:21.

In refuting the Wts so called scripural basis for banning birthday celebrations, you can point out that Pharaoh and King Herod were arbitary rulers and violent men; such monarchs were acustomed to executing people of all sorts of occasions, not just on their birthdays. Moreover, a person sending a birthday card, or a parent providing a cake with candles at children's party, can hardly be accused of following the pattern of those murderous men.

Although the acutal word birthday appears only in connection with Pharaoh and Herod in most translations, the Bible doesn't contain reference to such celebrations in goldy families: Job 1:4, it says of the patriarch Job's family, "and his sons went and held a banquet at the house of earch one on his own day; and they sent an invited therir three sisters to eat and drink with them" (New World Translations). That "his own day" refers to each one's birthday becomes clear when we read further: "It was after this that Job opened his mouth and began to call down evil upon his day. Job now answered and said, "Let the day perishon which I came to be born...'" (Job 3:1-3, NWT) The Living Bible's paraphrase of Job 1:4-5 expresses this thought: "Every year when each of Job's sons had birthday, he invited his brothers and sisters to his home for a celebration. On these occasions they would eat and drink with great merriment. When these birhtday parties ended..."

Even the WTS's own translations reveals that the birht of John the Baptist was celebrated, when it record this angelic announcement "And you will have joy and great gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth" (Luke 1:14, NWT)

If the brith of John the Baptist was an occasion for rejoicing and if faithful Job's children celebrated their birthdays, the fact that pharaoh and Herod also clebrated theirs cannot logically be used as a basis for banning birthday parties amoung the Bible believers today

Hope that helps,

mnb77

14

"How Do We Know the End if Near?"

by Bonnie_Clyde in

that was the talk yesterday.

the speaker started by asking for a "show of hands" of who thought the end was very near?

i was sitting in the back row and believe i was the only one who didn't raise my hand.

mnb77

I found a site that has some of the prophcies about the end times. it includes those which have past and those which are to come as well as those in progress. http://www.100prophecies.org/default.htm check it out, it is facinating. and they remember that fellow named Christ too! mnb77

12

Simple ignorance

by hillbillygal in

ok, i have browsed through the jw sites & guess i am missing it, what is the big controversy about jw?

i simply do not know, i have heard it called a "cult" and understood that they did not believe that christ is our savior.

i know they are an organized religion, not a "cult" i just haven't ever learned enough to know.

mnb77

hillbillygal,

check out this site http://www.carm.org/witnesses.htm, it gives a history and combat for the teaching of the JW cult. it is very informative and will show you how this man made organization is incorrect in a lot of its teachings. mnb

6

If you feel like vomiting..

by GetBusyLiving in

heres a link to a video dealing with 'end time prophecys' by some apocalypse sect - http://tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/telecast/tw-telecast.cgi?action=view_telecast .

it was spooky how much these guys remind me of the witnesses.

the video i watched was at the bottom left of the page.

mnb77

GBL, that site is affiliated with the SDA (seven day adventist). I checked their links and found the part about worshiping on saturday not on sunday. In my research, they are very simular in their strict teachings like the JW.

48

Can it be proven that the WTS is NOT God's personal organization?

by M.J. in

imagine trying to prove to someone that firmly believes in leprechauns that they simply don't exist.

where do you start?

an excellent saying i have heard is "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

mnb77

God's personal organization would probalbly not say God said something he didn't:

1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, page 338.

1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" The Watchtower, 8/15/68, page 494.

1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ?end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ?end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." Awake, 10/8/68.

god's personal organization wouldn't be wrong, would they?

mnb

36

What does Russell, Masons and Satan have in common?

by mnb77 in

freemasons (aka: masons) are under the control of satan and russell was there with them...

now we come to russell's part.

russell was a freemason.

mnb77

http://www.freedomdomain.com/freemason.html

this site denies that freemasons have anything to do with satan, but it does claim that Russell was a 32 degree Freemason

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/russell.html

this site has connections about freemasons and LDS leader and Russell

mnb77

21

is the future more or less bleak for the atheist?

by doogie in

a thread from yesterday got me thinking about something.

is it possible that human life is less bleak if not viewed through the eyes of theism?

traditionally, i think there?s a general understanding that to look at the world through ?god-colored?

mnb77

my point was just that i wonder if atheists are actually better equipped than theists to see the good (both present and future) in human society rather than focus on the negative aspects.

when you say this, I think that most theists do look only at the bad, but I, being a theist dont focus on the bad the human society has given us, but i rather focus on the present oppotunities (good) and the furture hope of what is to come (typically good)--(Christian-jew. pt of view)