My wife is an ex-catholic, and she assures me that she was taught in Grade School that the name of God was Jehovah. This was taught to her in a chatholic school by a nun. Unfortunately, she states that no one used that name in the "church" after her fourth grade!
Posts by opr83
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12NAME`JEHOVAH' FIRST USED BY CATHOLIC!
by badboy ini believe i read somewhere that jehovah was first used by the catholic!
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356
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 ini'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).
and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.
people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!
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opr83
I too am forced to comment on this thread. Thanks S4 for starting this discussion. I wish I had the time to expound on the many, many fine points made here by all. I'm an ex-elder, stepping away some years ago. Still "active" in the congregation. I do have the mindset that has been described here by many - that Jehovah will correct matters in time, that it will be a "massive" correction, and that the scriptural applications of how corruption infiltrated the Israelites for years is appropriate in this time that we are living.
We do long for it to be corrected. Some long for it to be exposed as false. And, in fact, when the correction comes, it will be a tremendous blow to those that have been loyal for so long. I agree with you, S4, on the primary reasons why ones finally step away from the Org. Personal atrocities committed on them, or some overwhelming issue that they cannot abide by any longer.
I often wonder if I harmed anyone because of what I said, did, or did not do as an elder, or even as a fellow member in the congregation. It wears upon the consciense, and is not easily dismissed or written off as if "I was just following orders". Those that are still elders that read this post, how is it that you handle ones seeking guidence? There is much that we would like to tell them, to give them comfort and scriptural advice that is ---- different ------ than what may be offered by elders that do not think for themselves.
At times I've wanted to gather a group of elders together and debate many of the things that you find here at this board. But, sadly that would be a significant waste of time on the majority of those ones. Ps 115 talks about idols or false gods (lest I be accused of taking a scripture out of context) but it apply describes ones that refuse, beyond all logical reasoning, not to see where things have gone awry.
It doesn't anger me, it saddens me. And, it frightens me as well.
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Requirement for JWs to report sins of others to the elders--need source
by cabasilas ini'm looking for some pointed references that detail the requirement for jws to report the sins ("disfellowshipping offenses") of fellow members to the elders.
i have the "a time to speak--when?
" article from 1987 but was looking for more concise and direct statements in wt literature.
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opr83
Check out the 87 wt 9/1 page 13 for a good section on this topic.
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When Will I Not Be Considered Disfellowshipped Among the Congregation?
by kwheeler inhere is a little background about myself.
my mother raised me and my siblings in the jw faith.
however, my father was not a witness and opposed a lot of the beliefs so you can imagine how our life was.
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opr83
If you are asking when the congregation will consider you (or your mother for that matter) reinstated, you will wait a long time, provided that the Elders of whatever congregation have not "condesended" to reinstate you. Rather, you need to realize that it is Jehovah that accepts repentance through his Son, not the body of elders. Imagine for a moment that we have the abilty to be in the presence of God. We have sinned, and have had a bad attitude toward that sin. But, on reflection, we repent and no longer carry out that sin. We have "repented and turned around." How long, do you think, does Jehovah withhold his forgiveness? A Day, a week, a month, a certain timeframe? The answer has to be, "as soon as we repent and turn around, Jehovah extends his forgiveness". It is instantaneous, not some long, drawn out process.
Try to educate your mom, or your brother about what the bible actually teaches regarding God's forgiveness. Perhaps they will accept it, perhaps not. In any case, do not torment yourself by thinking that God has not forgiven you if you are truly repentant. It is that question that you have to examine for yourself. If you want to be reinstated for your family's sake, you should by all means consider it. But, if it is being right with Jehovah, don't take man's laws and concepts as the final word.
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Field Service
by XBEHERE inquestion for those of you still going out: do you actually still pretend to preach to people?
pretend interest in the latest mags so they will take them?
for me its easy since territory is so apathetic anyway i just dont bother overcoming any of their "conversation stoppers" my calls i am slowly, methodically telling them i wont be coming around anymore.
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opr83
If you are still "going out" in the ministry and have the opportunity to address people interesting in scripture, then you are doing them a disservice by not engaging them in a discussion of what the scriptures actually teach. Forget about the WT, A, or any other publication. This may be your last opportunity to tell them "No matter what, the scriptures teach the Truth. Always look to that source first before going beyond it." There is no need to critize or degrade the message(s) you have delivered before. Just keep pointing them to their own bible. If we really believe that God's Holy Spirit directs right-hearted individuals to His Truth, then the only avenue is their prayers and their reading of scripture. Everything else is specious.
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Do active jw's count their time they post here for field service?
by HockeyMullet ini'm just curious.
it looks like there's a couple "unbaptised" individuals here.
i suppose you wouldn't have to detail it in the service reports, although i haven't filled one out for quite a while.
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opr83
So, the issue of "counting time" is an interesting one. Any scriptural reference to counting time? And please don't anyone give me the tired argument "God is a God of order", or "the ancient records show how precisely matters were recorded.". Not applicable, and certainly not how "time" is used in the organization. It is used as a measurement of the individual. Yes, it is useful to a worldwide organization in figuring out printing needs, dollars spent, where we may need emphasis, etc., but it is primarily used as a measurement of those "reaching out" for "greater privileges", or worse, those "weak and needing help, or falling away". The amount of time has become a litmus test for those that can be used and those that should not be. These are inappropriate and distorted uses of this tool.
I've often wondered what God actually thinks of this obsession with time. I opt for a single block, with no name, saying "did you witness to someone this month? Yes or No should be checked, and then sent on to the society for counting. The amount of printing needs can be tracked by the amount of orders from the congregations.
"Field Service Report"...........What a mislabel of a form..........
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They Tell The Elders One Thing And The Others Something Else!
by minimus inthe organization is so deceitful that they will tell the watchtower readers that the elders should deal mercifully with wrongdoers but in private letters or correspondence thru the circuit overseers, they will tell the elders not to allow "leaven" within their midst.
they say it's better to disfellowship and see whether someone's truly repentant afterwards rather than taking a chance to contaminate the congregation.......another example of their being two-faced is that they will tell the brotherhood not to buy homes, cars, vacations, etc.
unnecessarily as it could signal materialism, yet the watchtower society spends more money on real estate than we could ever possibly imagine but it's ok for them..........can you think of other things that show that the organization is hypocritical??
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opr83
Minimus:
I stepped down in June of 2002, so I don't have current information. I do know that what you state is true some years ago, but I do not believe that is current thinking. Do you know of anyone that has actually been subjected to a JC based upon voting, or has been DA'ed due to voting in the U.S. ? It is clearly a conscience matter, even by the society's own public documents. The act of DA by an individual would be hard to support on this issue.
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They Tell The Elders One Thing And The Others Something Else!
by minimus inthe organization is so deceitful that they will tell the watchtower readers that the elders should deal mercifully with wrongdoers but in private letters or correspondence thru the circuit overseers, they will tell the elders not to allow "leaven" within their midst.
they say it's better to disfellowship and see whether someone's truly repentant afterwards rather than taking a chance to contaminate the congregation.......another example of their being two-faced is that they will tell the brotherhood not to buy homes, cars, vacations, etc.
unnecessarily as it could signal materialism, yet the watchtower society spends more money on real estate than we could ever possibly imagine but it's ok for them..........can you think of other things that show that the organization is hypocritical??
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opr83
There is newer information from the WT on voting. While a conscience matter, it is still one that evokes much emotion, both positive and negative. The latest "public" information (given the recent thread of ones that believe the Elders receive different direction than the congregation), below is an excerpt of a question from readers:
"There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12.
Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: "You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me."—Psalm 31:3." WT 11/1/99 page 29. Watch Tower Society.
The article made a distinction of those "mandatory" versus non-mandatory voting. For those that have access to this information, it would be good to review it. I would be interested to know of anyone of the publishers that has been DF'ed generated by a voting incident in the US.
Christian neutrality is the key. Would voting make you lose your "Christian voice"? Would others in the congregation be stumbled if they "found out" that you voted? All questions that one needs to ask internally regarding what the scriptures indicate, not what someone in some office in NY tells you. If the consciense moves one to take a certain action, I make the assumption that one is prepared to accept any consequences associated with that action, be it from an organization, God, or the governments.
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Working for the State or Government
by jula71 inthe above thread got me thinking.
one of the main reasons dub's don't get involved with the military is that they do not want to "support" the government to which it serves.
ok, how about working for the government?
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opr83
Was unaware of this, Rebel. Thanks. Didn't read it all, but saw the WT Society as a purported 5 mill share owner. Doesn't look like a good investment! It is curious that they would keep this investment. Although it appeared that the application could be used in many forms, it is the large Navy contract they highlight.
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Working for the State or Government
by jula71 inthe above thread got me thinking.
one of the main reasons dub's don't get involved with the military is that they do not want to "support" the government to which it serves.
ok, how about working for the government?
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opr83
I was (am) a JW, and while a MS in the late 70's, decided to become a police officer. Of course that was frowed upon during that time, but it was a personal choice. In July of '83, the WT came out with an article on "be peacable" which basically said that if you held a position that required you to be armed, you could no longer hold any "privileges in the congregation. I weighed the matter, and decided to resign my police commission. Shortly after, I was appointed an elder.
I still worked for goverments (local) until changing to the private sector in 2000.
The issue about working in government does not have to do with the "supporting" governments. It has to do with what you are persieved to incourage. For instance, being armed and talking "peace" at the door really made no sense. As an example, if I were to take a job with a "military" manufacturer it would have been a violation of consciense to continue that job and go door-to-door.
This brings up a whole range of questions now for me. However, the decisions I made back then were based upon what I believed to be true and correct, and where I would be most used by Jehovah. It is a sad reality that - if I would have made other choices - I still could have been effective in being used by Jehovah, though not as a servant. I am no longer a servant in the congregation, having resigned about 3 years ago for a number of reasons.