SeymourButts

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Posts by SeymourButts

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  30

  Would you contribute to expose the Watchtower?

  by nicolaou in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  jost tossing an idea about.

  would anyone be willing to make regular contributions to an 'exposure fund'?.

  it wouldn't be a 'fighting fund', we couldn't hope to compete against watchtower finances or its legal department in that way.

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  SeymourButts

  Most definately!

  I would like to see a fund to pay for a couple billboards around the country...on a few major routes. I would give $500 if we could get another 99 to do the same for a full page ad in a major paper....New York Times.
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  10

  "Just Looking " or, " Tracking? "

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when it comes to your husband or wife, yes, wives look and track too.

  woman do look at other men and other woman too.

  so when it comes to both, how much looking and or tracking is too much for you to take?.

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  SeymourButts

  Just because you are on a diet doesn't mean that you can't look at the menu.
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  25

  Garage sales

  by poppers in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from reading this site i've learned that jws frown up buying used clothing etc.

  from second hand stores because of possible 'demonization.

  ' my neighbors are jw and i notice that they have fairly frequent garage sales.

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  SeymourButts

  I have never heard of that one. I used to go garage sale'ing all of the time with my mom......many moons ago.
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  28

  What have you discovered on the journey?

  by dh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  the journey being life, what have you discovered that you never expected to... could be a musician, actor, a movie, a type of food, a thought, a realisation, a religion, a thing about your personality or an emotion, a particular song... it could be anything really.... what have you discovered?

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  SeymourButts

  The more I learn, the less I know.

  The deeper I search for answers the farther I get from the answer.

  I'll never have enough time to learn all of the things that I want, or to see all of the places I haven't been.

  kind of depressing sometimes when I think about it
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  67

  If God doesn't want brothers to have beards, why does it grow?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  men have facial hair and women don't, and that's god who decided that.. so why can't brothers have beards or goatees.

  .

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  SeymourButts

  I wonder....does god want us to have pubic hair?...eyebrows?

  Yes, but he doesn't want the pubic hair ON your eyebrows. (wink wink, nudge nudge).

  Why are pubic hairs curly? So they don't poke you in the eye. Gods way of saying oral sex is o.k
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  63

  Ok so you left the idea of God - what would it take to come back?

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one point that has played many times on my mind (and is fairly central to my world view) is that if god exists its up to him to prove it.

  what would it take for you to accept god?

  starters for ten: .

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  SeymourButts

  I do believe in God...or rather, a supreme being. I just don't believe in the god of the bible. As far as Jesus...all I will admit to at the moment is....Jesus was a man and he walked on the earth. Son of god?....I won't go that far.
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  14

  Adam & Eve

  by startingover in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was watching a program the other night in which a group of people were reinacting the early american colonist's lives.

  they were supplied with homes and supplies which replicated the original conditions.

  i found it interesting how hard of a time they had surviving.

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  SeymourButts

  He reasoned (quite well imo) that no wise god of beauty would have us pooing and smelling up paradise!!! I couldn't argue with that logic.

  Hmmm.....no more poop-chute. I wonder if we would still need two butt-cheeks then? Maybe just one large cheek designed for sitting only. Heck,...if you don't need to pee either, and you can't have kids, would I still have my wiener? for recreational purposes at least?
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  763

  Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?

  by Little Bo Peep in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello all, i've been reading your site for a couple of years now, and have found, for the most part, it to be very helpful.

  i must say, at first i was very "scared" at what i might find, but contrary to what i grew up learning, there is a "wealth" of information outside of the watchtower organization.

  i haven't attended meetings for about two years now, and like many i've read about, have spent many hours researching, telling myself "i'm not wrong for searching", and doing more research.

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  SeymourButts

  BM 21946

  This tablet provides the key for firming up the dates of the last kings of Judah. It establishes the date for the battle of Carchemish in May or June of 605. Jeremiah 46:2 places the battle during the fourth year of Jehoiakim's reign. The tablet also provides a precise date for the capture of Jerusalem. The chronicle records the event as follows, "In the seventh year [of Nebuchadnezzar's reign], the month of Kislev, the king of Akkad mustered his troops, marched to the Hatti-land, and encamped against the city of Judah and on the second day of the month of Adar he seized the city and captured the king." Adar 2nd of the seventh year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign = 15/16 March 597 BC. Jehoiachin's short reign which lasted three months and ten days (II Kings 24:8; II Chronicles 36:9) and ended with the capture of Jerusalem, establishes the synchronism necessary to chronolog the dates of the last kings of Judah.
  

  BM 25127

  This tablet describes the beginnings of the new Babylonian Kingdom during the years 626 to 623 BC. The text opens with Nabopolassar acting as the leader of the insurgent Babylonian forces who have just defeated the Assyrians Outside the gates of Babylon. To celebrate their independence, the Babylonians crown Nabopolassar king on November 23, 626 BC. In subsequent years, the Assyrians attempt to regain control of Babylon, but because of internal strife, they are no longer strong enough to do so. However, Babylon was not yet strong enough herself to go on the offensive and conquer Assyria.

  BM 21901

  The chronicle for the events between 622 to 617 is missing. This tablet covers the period from 616 to 608 and opens with the Medes having made their appearance as the leaders of the anti-Assyrian coalition. The Egyptians, on the other hand, have now joined forces with the weakened Assyrians to thwart the threat of the Medo-Bababylonian alliance. In 614, the Medes capture the Assyrian city Assur. Nabopolassar arrives to offer his assistance, but arrives after the city is fallen. The two kings, Kyaxares of the Medes and Nabopolassar form an alliance and set out in conquest. In 612, after three months of siege, the two kings sack Nineveh. The Assyrians make a last ditch effort in Harran to maintain their civilization. Yet despite tremendous Egyptian assistance, the attempt was a failure and the Assyrians are lost forever.

  BM 22047

  This tablet describes the events leading up to the battle at Carchemish in 605. Nabopolassar the king and Nebuchadnezzar the crown-prince command separate armies in campaigns against the mountain people on the Urartian border so as to prevent raids from former Assyrian provinces. Unsuccessful attacks were also made against the Egyptians who were firmly entrenched at Carchemish. Nabopolassar returned to Babylon toward the end of 606 and died there a few months later.

  BM 25124

  No history is recorded for the years 594 to 557. This tablet describes the campaign of Neriglissar against Pirundu who had invaded Hume, a territory under the protection of Babylon. The campaign was successful.

  Hayim Tadmor combined the data collected from the five tablets described above with a chronology proposed by Edwin Theile, which was based in part upon other Babylonian Chronicle tablets translated earlier, to establish a solid chronology for the last kings of Judah. Five synchronisms form the foundation for his chronology. They are:

  1. The fourth year of Jehoiakim = the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar. (Jer. 25:1)
  2. The deportation of Jehoiakim and ascension of Zedekiah = the eighth year of Nebuchadnezzar. (II Kings 24:12)
  3. The tenth year of Zedekiah = the eighteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar. (Jer 32:1)
  4. The eleventh year of Zedekiah, the fall of Jerusalem, and the destruction of the temple = the nineteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar. (II Kings 25:1-9; Jer. 52:12)
  5. The release of Jehoiachin in the 37th year of the captivity of Jehoiachin = the accession year of Amel-Marduk. (II Kings 25:27; Jer. 52:31)

  From this information you get the following table.

  Date	Judah	Mesopotamia	Events
  642	Menasseh 55 acc. year of Amon	Assurbanipal 27	--
  640	Amon 2 acc. year of Josiah	Assurbanipal 29	--
  632	Josiah 8	Assurbanipal 37	Prelude of religious reform in Judah (II Chron. 34:3)
  631	--	Assurbanipal 38	Last year of Assurbanipal
  630	--	Assuretililani 1	--
  628	Josiah 12	--	Beginning of the reform under Josiah (II Chron. 34:3)
  627	Josiah 13	acc. year of Sinsariskun	Beginning of Jeremiah's prophecy (Jer. 1:1)
  625	--	Naboplassar 1	--
  622	Josiah 18	--	Discovery of the "Book of Covenant": climax of the reform (II Kings 22:3)
  609	Josiah 31 Jehoahaz (3 months) acc. year of Jehoiakim	Nabopalassar 17	Battle of Megiddo; death of Josiah (II Kings 23:29-33)
  608	Jehoiakim 1	--	--
  605	Jehoiakim 4	Nabopalassar 21	Battle of Carchemish (Jer. 46:2)
  604	Jehoiakim 5	Nebuchadnezzar 1	Nebuchadnezzar in Hatti Fall of Ashkelon Fast of Judah Jeremiah reads the scroll (Jer. 36:9) Judah comes under the rule of Babylon (II Kings 24:1)
  603	Jehoiakim 6	Nebuchadnezzar 2	Nebuchadnezzar in Hatti
  602	Jehoiakim 7	Nebuchadnezzar 3	Nebuchadnezzar in Hatti
  601	Jehoiakim 8	Nebuchadnezzar 4	Indecisive battle with Egypt Revolt of Jehoiakim
  599	Jehoiakim 10	Nebuchadnezzar 6	War against Arabs (Jer. 49:28)
  598	Jehoiakim 11	Nebuchadnezzar 7	Death of Jehoiakim 3 months and 10 days reign of Jehoiachin Siege of Jerusalem
  597	acc. year of Zedekiah	Nebuchadnezzar 8	Fall of Jerusalem and captivity of Jehoiachin. (March 16)
  596	Zedekiah 1	Nebuchadnezzar 9	Babylonian campaign to Elam
  595	Zedekiah 2	Nebuchadnezzar 10	Rebellion in Babylon
  594	Zedekiah 3	Nebuchadnezzar 11	Babylonian campaign in Hatti
  591	Zedekiah 6	Nebuchadnezzar 14	Egyptian naval campaign to Phoenicia Rebellion of Zedekiah
  588	Zedekiah 9	Nebuchadnezzar 17	Second seige of Jerusalem
  586	Zedekiah 11	Nebuchadnezzar 19	Fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple. (II Kings 25:8) Second Babylonian captivity (Jer. 52:28)
  582	none	Nebuchadnezzar 23	Third Babylonian captivity (Jer. 32:30)
  568	none	Nebuchadnezzar 37	Nebuchadnezzar's campaign against Egypt
  561	none	acc year of Amel-Marduk	Jehoiachin released from prison after 37 years.
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  4

  Help What issue is this from?

  by SeymourButts in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was in another post....can someone tell me what issue it comes from.

  i could really use this one.. questions from readers .

  is it true that for religious reasons jehovah?s witnesses may not become members of the ymca (young men?s christian association)?

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  SeymourButts

  Got it!

  Jan.1,1979 WT I thought I would have to go through the entire bound volume..it was the very first one.

  Thanks Minimus!
• 
  4

  Help What issue is this from?

  by SeymourButts in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was in another post....can someone tell me what issue it comes from.

  i could really use this one.. questions from readers .

  is it true that for religious reasons jehovah?s witnesses may not become members of the ymca (young men?s christian association)?

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  SeymourButts

  This was in another post....can someone tell me what issue it comes from. I could really use this one.

  Questions from Readers

  ?

  Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah?s Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Men?s Christian Association)?

  Yes, that is so. We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith.

  In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position:

  "Alas for the Bible-rearing practiced in the Y. M. C. Associations! They are completely under the control of the sectarians, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-sectarian, professedly controlled by no creed but the Bible, they are more creed-bound than others, since they are bound by all the popular creeds."?P. 6.

  Later the underlying religious purpose and interfaith efforts of the YMCA were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovah?s Witnesses in one of their meetings.

  Many persons think of the "Y" simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a swimming pool, facilities for athletic training and a place for clubs to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the YMCA was founded with a distinctly religious basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads:

  "The Young Men?s Christian Associations seek to unite those young men, who, regarding Jesus Christ as their God and Saviour, according to the Holy Scriptures, desire to be His disciples in their faith and in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of His Kingdom amongst young men." (Italics added)

  While in some countries churches may not be the YMCA?s main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental religious objectives of the "Y" cannot be ignored.

  ?But,? some may sincerely wonder, ?is religion or interfaith really an aspect of the YMCA?? The answer must be "Yes." Though religious features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the YMCA, all local "Ys" are still expected to comply with the Paris Basis. Further, note comments from the 1975 YMCA publication Christian and Open:

  Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of YMCAs, wrote:

  "From its very foundation, it has always looked to the Bible for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the church without claiming to be a congregation itself. . . .

  "But it is more than just an instrument through which Christians put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the YMCA look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through Jesus Christ is experienced. . . .

  "In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and priesthood for its neighbours. . . . "

  Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of YMCAs of Germany, said:

  "From its very beginning the YMCA was no doubt meant to have only Christians as members and on the other hand there was the missionary obligation towards those members who could not yet profess Jesus Christ. . . .

  "The YMCA is a big offer, but only in as far as Jesus Christ is working in it as Living Saviour. We should do our very best not to drive out this Lord but as we carry him in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting him in the YMCA and of continuously extending this possibility to other people."

  Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the religious orientation of the YMCA. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the YMCA?s World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote:

  "It may readily be granted that too few Y.M.C.A.s take full advantage of the opportunity for ecumenical education inherent in these informal contacts among Christians . . .

  "When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . .

  Leaders in both churches and Y.M.C.A.s need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a lay ecumenical Christian movement. A Young Men?s Christian Association is not a church nor a substitute for a church. . . . Yet the Faith and Order commission of the British Council of Churches declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the Christian Associations are ?valuable auxiliaries? of the churches, organs of their own missionary activity."?The Christian Century, June 10, 1964.

  And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!", stated:

  "Realizing that the Christian identity of the ?Y? has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves."

  Consequently, there is ample evidence that the YMCA originated with religious objectives and continues to have such to this day.

  In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah?s Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy.

  Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.?1 Cor. 8:11-13.

  Jehovah?s Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that "bodily training is beneficial for a little." Yet it adds that "godly devotion is beneficial for all things." (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a triune God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is "God" in a trinity, as is taught in many of Christendom?s churches and as is still included in the "Paris Basis" of the YMCA.?1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3.

  While interfaith efforts and ecumenism are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . ?Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves.?" (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped "with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a religious cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Scriptures teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovah?s Witnesses may not become members of that organization.

  Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the YMCA?s existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts:

  "YMCA services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter."?Encyclopædia Britannica, Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed.

  "In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 ?delegates? were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the temporal and spiritual needs of soldiers. . . . In World War I, the American Y.M.C.A. assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the Y.M.C.A. became one of the organizations that founded the United Service Organizations [USO], joining as a group of private religious organizations from Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish faiths in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and religious services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments."?The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed.

  "YMCA activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The YMCA maintained more than 450 clubs for the Allied armed forces."?The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed.

  This kind of service under the name "Christian" was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah 4:3.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<