I don't recall Jesus teaching to shun family members who leave the faith (the Wt requires its members to shun those who leave THEIR teachings- which is quite a different gosepl from the one Jesus taught.)
isaacaustin
JoinedPosts by isaacaustin
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Nov 5 Dr. Phil - Cult Mind Control - WATCH TONIGHT!
by still_in74 inwednesday - november 5, 2008mind control?its hard to believe, but in america alone, there may be as many as 5,000 religious groups preying upon the weak and vulnerable, and all in the name of god.
dr. phils guests have warnings for you and your children.
seeta says when her 18-year-old daughter joined a religious group called 1 mind ministries, she left home with her 7-month-old son and never returned.
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Nov 5 Dr. Phil - Cult Mind Control - WATCH TONIGHT!
by still_in74 inwednesday - november 5, 2008mind control?its hard to believe, but in america alone, there may be as many as 5,000 religious groups preying upon the weak and vulnerable, and all in the name of god.
dr. phils guests have warnings for you and your children.
seeta says when her 18-year-old daughter joined a religious group called 1 mind ministries, she left home with her 7-month-old son and never returned.
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isaacaustin
If you applied steve hassans book to Jesus and his followers, given he said you had to leave family, told a rich man to give up all his money and follow him, in fact told most of his followers to leave their jobs and follow him only living on what they could get as donations would Jesus and his followers be defined as a cult by steve hassan?
The difference here Reniaa is that Jesus was God- or for the sake of argument here the Son of God. Indisputably sent from the Father. Not a cult-leader. Many groups today- of which the WT is a top offender- are claiming to be the channel to Christ...demanding those sacrifices Jesus spoke of to be made for that leader or organization- in the name of Christ.
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Local Radio DJ says Jehovah's Witnesses are worst religion in the world ...
by troubled mind inif you are a person that loves getting presents !!!!!!!
hahaaha
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isaacaustin
JWs LOVE getting, but HATE giving
Very true Sacolton
They can even TAKE blood fractions but NOT give.
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jesus denies being God! scriptural discussion.
by reniaa ini thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
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isaacaustin
I think it is safe to say that this thread has become one that is just spinning wheels, so to speak. I am done on this one I think. Joseph I apologize for any lack of respect I may have displayed to you in my posting here- I do not apologize for my points which i beleive are valid...only for any lack of respect I may have shown toward you.
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I am an active elder and I voted today!
by outofthebox intoday is a proud day for me.
i became part of my fellow citizens in this country by casting my vote.
it was a thrilling experience (more like a disney ride really, since the line wasn't that long).
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isaacaustin
You surprise me Isaac I did think you wouldn't fall into the class of 'end justifies the means' and would actually appreciate that some people considering their age and situations are best left with the comfort and hope of their faith especially if you cannot offer them an alternative. you are right I am more pro-witness these days and am currently sorting my life so as to get to at least one meeting a fortnight,
Give me a scenario that you mean someone may be better left alone. Name a scenario. A 85 year-old widow with no family, perhaps. In some cases yes, it is best left alone.
The argument that holy spirit would not allow a bad person in is ridiculous unless you can guarantee perfection in the leaders of any faith, The example of bad seeds getting in goes way back to Jesus and Judas, even peter denied Jesus 3 times so holy spirit didn't protect him there, you say you follow bible isaac so i'm surprised you made that point!
LOL That was made a bit satirically about the org. Yes wheat and weeds grow together. OOTB would be wheat trying to help others.
As for Mary's book considering I have read a number of mary's view on my points she is particularily hate-filled on the JW front,
Hate-filled? At injustice yes. As far as her attitude toward others Mary seems quite loving and helpful.
I don't think her book would give a fair or unbiased look whatever the subject if it concerns JW's, so nope it holds no interest for me and I feel the same about awakenned at gileads book too. I saw a thread were he was canvassing for negative experiences there was no attempt to ask for alternate ones.
Mary's book used solely WT lit. I agree that WT lit is very negative...but that fault would lay with its authors. As far as your comment toward Lance, we would then ahve to apply that same principle toward the WT. Why do they not solicit any opinions or experiences other than that which is beneficial toward their own interests? They are like a car dealer who tells his customers that he is honest and very upfront but they are not to contact any of his former customers to check him out. They are like an accountant who handles someones chekcing account and tell the client that anytime they want to know about their account activity they are to come to him and he will print out his excel sheets showing all activity but they are not to go to the bank and get actual bank statements.
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I am an active elder and I voted today!
by outofthebox intoday is a proud day for me.
i became part of my fellow citizens in this country by casting my vote.
it was a thrilling experience (more like a disney ride really, since the line wasn't that long).
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isaacaustin
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You're a good man OOTB
As to Reniaa question:
managed to destroy the faith of any faithful old witnesses yet?
We can only hope so. Once faith is destroyed in the WT one can begin to know Jesus and understand the Bible.
I'll answer you isaac as a good example of the posts mentioning mine.....You all call JW's a lie but they are not the ones that added a scripture and make a son a god so personally I do not think it is a lie so no i'm not being a hypocrite, not in the same way OOTB is.
Ok, already starting off by spinning onto an unrelated topic and using WT stadards to judge it as a lie....
If jesus had just come and made Jews know their faith was a lie but replacing it with nothing how cruel is that? I respect mormons or {pick any other evangelical faith) before I respect people that seek destroy someones faith without putting an alternate hope in their hearts, and after their faith is destroyed and they have doubts and loss not even sure there is a God and my goodness there must a be few of you that know what that is like and trust me I DO TOO, you would do that to another human being especially someone too old and having invested a whole life in a faith and religion to ever be able to rebuild with the same confidence?
Ahh, the ol 'where else is there to go?"....If a house is burning down you get out of the house- then you find somewhere else. And all this time I have promoted Jesus as the way to go. But the JW would not even know if there was something 1000 times better Reniaa, because they are not allowed to look.
Congratulating yourselves that you've helped destroy the WT when all you've done is selfish self-indulgent playing with people for your own revenge agendas! well forgive me If I think my so-called lie is better than being like you lot, who have let bitterness and revenge make your hearts very cold.
Again, namecalling and judgement that sounds like it is right out of a WT magazine denoucing anyone who dares criticize them......all this spun off of your changing the topip from voting to the trinity. Wow. Sounds like the WT here.
Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," [
This verse is regarding the denial of freedom in Christ- NOT the denying of the WT being God's instrument.
OOTB is playing a silly game and my prayer is that he manages to hurt no-one and least of all himself and his family.
OOTB has put himself in a position where he can hopefully reach other with the truth about the WT. I will pray for him in his efforts as well...and of course his family.
I'm done
ok, have a great day. Hope you learned something. If not, i would suggest you PM Mary for a copy of her book.
reniaa
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jesus denies being God! scriptural discussion.
by reniaa ini thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
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isaacaustin
Joseph, a straight reading of the Bible does not lead one to your conclusions. It takes a precoceived doctrine that you need to uphold...then a selective definition of the original language and many suppostions not there. I will not be back online till tomorrow morning so if you reply to this and don't hear back from me till then...that is why. My suggestion to you is to read the bible straight thru instead of as the dictionary you use it as.
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jesus denies being God! scriptural discussion.
by reniaa ini thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
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isaacaustin
Gen 31:
11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee.
13 I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
Judges 2;
1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
4 And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.
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421
jesus denies being God! scriptural discussion.
by reniaa ini thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
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isaacaustin
Issac,
The verse did not say that. Where does it say anyone was relaying a message anywhere in the texts? Nowhere. You made it up. What books of the Bible were you inspired to write. None! Can you raise the dead and heal the sick as well? No!
My reply: Joseph, you are simply delusional. I didn't make anything up at all. I simply observed the pattern of the use of angels throut the Bible...unlike you who needs to tailor each circumstance to uphold preconceived doctrine. Just as the Angel of the Lord in the OT speaks and it is God speaking thru that angel....The Holy Spirit spoke thru this Angel. An angel is a messenger. The Holy Spirit spoke thru a messenger. Bible class 101.
Then you are stuck with the verse that clearly said: I have sent them. And that I, that Spirit whoever it was in the visions being described is also called/identified as an Angel in Acts. 10:3.
My reply: Untrue, and baseless. It is not identified as the angel....Again- definition of angel- messenger.
Hard for you to take I see. Do you know what scriptural use is for words like this: Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. Well I do, and now perhaps a few more reading this do as well.
Joseph
My reply: Not hard for me to take at all. Simply reading in context. Heb 1:7 you are using the KJV and trying to make that word 'spirits' mean the same "Holy Spirit" in Acts.
Let's look at a few other translations of this shall we:
NLT God calls his angels "messengers swift as the wind, and servants made of flaming fire."*
NIV In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.”*
ESV Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”NASB And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
RSV Of the angels he says, "Who makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."
You are as you always do Joseph...taking this hebrews verse out of context. This whole chapter in hebrews is explaining jesus to the Jews and this portion of scripture is distinguishing between Jesus and angels.
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I am an active elder and I voted today!
by outofthebox intoday is a proud day for me.
i became part of my fellow citizens in this country by casting my vote.
it was a thrilling experience (more like a disney ride really, since the line wasn't that long).
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isaacaustin
Snowbird- thanks for that. I never thought of thta about Elijah.