ive just left the jws well got dfed a month ago!
but family want me back so im trying to prove to myself that it isnt true, top get the strength not to go back,i heard the 607 date may be false, can anyone show me about that, i know exactly what the jws say and cant believe the intial date is wrong, is it?
joelbear - agree - and when I asked WHERE in the Bible 607 originated, I received, what I can only describe as, utter confusion....
455 is the pivotal date where 607 is calculated from - FIRSTLY (and you'll like this!), I was told that 607 is arrived at by adding 70 years (Cyrus, Nehemiah etc) to 455! Hmmmm (that didn't work) - so THEN it's calculated from Ezra 1v1,2..., I really WILL do my homework regarding 455 as it was stressed SOOOO much!
i know that blondie spends a lot of time on the wt review.
she does the best job.
the reviews are right on.
I must say - this is the FIRST time I have ever ENJOYED looking at a Watchtower article - and I bet I'm not alone!
TA BLONDIE
there have been posts here that indicate the kh building work may be slowing in the u.s., and that there is consolidation of the congos going on.
if that is true why don't we see the society's published numbers on the decline?
my next question is, heaven forbid, you don't suppose they're inflating the membership numbers do you?
Lol JohnHag - that's a LOT of fast food!! Welcome
NOTHING the Society does with numbers seems to be accurate
ive just left the jws well got dfed a month ago!
but family want me back so im trying to prove to myself that it isnt true, top get the strength not to go back,i heard the 607 date may be false, can anyone show me about that, i know exactly what the jws say and cant believe the intial date is wrong, is it?
googlemagoogle - I have the Revelation 1988 ed on disc - the page you mentioned says -
4
From the mid-1870?s, Jehovah?s people had been anticipating that catastrophic events would start in 1914 and would mark the end of the Gentile Times. This is the period of "seven times" (2,520 years) running from the overthrow of the Davidic kingdom in Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. to Jesus? enthronement in heavenly Jerusalem in 1914 C.E.?Daniel 4:24, 25; Luke 21:24, King James Version.5
Thus, when C. T. Russell, first president of the Watch Tower Society, appeared for morning worship with the Brooklyn, New York, Bethel family on the morning of October 2, 1914, he made the dramatic announcement: "The Gentile Times have ended; their kings have had their day." Indeed, the worldwide upheaval that began in 1914 was so far-reaching that many long-standing monarchies disappeared
I can't see any reference to 606/607 - is 1988 a revised edition?
I have the ''keep it simple'' list supplied by Alleymom ( ta - useful), but JW visitor said that 607 is BIBLICAL and 587 is a date worked out by Historians who have assumed wrongly about time measurement. <sigh>
Has anyone got any information on this 455BCE - WHICH I was told was agreed by both JW and Historians (the latter obviously just GUESSING, lol)
this, i find, is always the bottom line.
'" "'you are my witnesses,'' is the utterance of jehovah, ''and i am god.
as his name is jehovah, the people must be jehovah's witnesses.
Your explanations and opinions have helped more than you know - many thanks.
Diamondblue : it makes me angry but more than that its embarassing when I look back...
Yep - that's the worst - when I am reminded that I used to believe and support things that I WAS really ignorant of.
this, i find, is always the bottom line.
'" "'you are my witnesses,'' is the utterance of jehovah, ''and i am god.
as his name is jehovah, the people must be jehovah's witnesses.
Thanks all - Blondie, I was never aware of the distinction, thanks.
ive just left the jws well got dfed a month ago!
but family want me back so im trying to prove to myself that it isnt true, top get the strength not to go back,i heard the 607 date may be false, can anyone show me about that, i know exactly what the jws say and cant believe the intial date is wrong, is it?
googlemagoogle - have tried without success to find the ''Revelation-Climax'' quote you pointed to.
This morning I questioned the 607 date and was told that it is BIBLICAL whereas the 587 date was only History - I presented the length of the rule of Kings etc to arrive at 587, but, was told, this was recorded inaccurately by Historians (time being measured in differnet ways and so not reliable).
ALSO this morning (same JW) threw another date at me which I was unaware of - 455BCE - from which 607 is calculated (he didn't seem to know how though) - something to do with Cyrus The Great commanding Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem after it had been desolated for 70 years.I will be doing more 'homework' on this (and any help would be MORE than welcome).
this, i find, is always the bottom line.
'" "'you are my witnesses,'' is the utterance of jehovah, ''and i am god.
as his name is jehovah, the people must be jehovah's witnesses.
I know what you're saying Moanzy, and I agree - but I have found that this is used in a ''when everything else fails'' argument. God has CHOSEN a people in HIS name - imperfect, but HIS Organisation.
this, i find, is always the bottom line.
'" "'you are my witnesses,'' is the utterance of jehovah, ''and i am god.
as his name is jehovah, the people must be jehovah's witnesses.
THIS, I find, is always the bottom line. When all else fails in a JW discussion/debate, (recently I have had unanswered questions regarding WTBTS etc - you all know the sort of stuff) THIS is the 'Trump Card'.
Clearly this hinges on the Scripture at Isaiah 43 v 12;-''You are my witnesses,'' is the utterance of Jehovah, ''even my servant whom I have chosen''.
I have had a very brief look through some WTBTS literature, and I have personally got the impression that BECAUSE JW BEAR the divine name, they feel chosen directly by God Himself.
''However, there was one name in the Scriptures that God had applied to his servants, which name no one else had taken, which name no one else wanted to take. It was a name that uniquely fitted them, namely, Jehovah's witnesses, based on Isaiah 43:10, 12: "'You are my witnesses,' is the utterance of Jehovah, ''even my servant whom I have chosen.'" "'You are my witnesses,'' is the utterance of Jehovah, ''and I am God.'" (WT 1962)''
''4 Which people? According to Isaiah's prophecy they would have to be those people who worship the God whose name is mentioned three times in this prophecy. As his name is Jehovah, the people must be Jehovah's witnesses. They certainly exalt the worship of Jehovah "above the top of the mountains" and lift it "up above the hills." (WT 1962)''
Too many quotes to mention - (but I have also noticed the apparant overuse of the word ''witnesses'' - or am I imagining it?) but as this is the ''argument'' I always come up against (just me?), how do I proceed?
ive just left the jws well got dfed a month ago!
but family want me back so im trying to prove to myself that it isnt true, top get the strength not to go back,i heard the 607 date may be false, can anyone show me about that, i know exactly what the jws say and cant believe the intial date is wrong, is it?
But use your intelligence, remember that most of those who are shouting that it is the wrong date at one time believed that it was the right date.
Scholar - although TRUE, this is an unfair statement. Those of us who were raised in the JW religion went to school for a Wordly education, and to JW for a Spiritual education - everything taught to us as children was taken for granted as being correct knowledge.
