Fatfreek

Joined

• started 195 topics
• posted 1,276 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Fatfreek

• 
  11

  DNA too flawed as second witness

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i finally got my hands on the wt library on cd (2005) and searched for myself.

  i wanted to see if there is any indication that the society allows dna evidence as one of the "two or three witnesses" requirements when it comes to testimony in child molestation or rape cases in the congregation.

  we all know that molesters and rapists usually make sure that nobody is watching when they work their evil.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  Yes, Ian, selective citation is one of their favorite tools.

  I've seen where they use DNA as an argument against the teaching of evolution. It's okay if it supports what you believe -- not okay if it supports what you don't.

  Fats
• 
  11

  DNA too flawed as second witness

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i finally got my hands on the wt library on cd (2005) and searched for myself.

  i wanted to see if there is any indication that the society allows dna evidence as one of the "two or three witnesses" requirements when it comes to testimony in child molestation or rape cases in the congregation.

  we all know that molesters and rapists usually make sure that nobody is watching when they work their evil.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  I finally got my hands on the WT library on CD (2005) and searched for myself. I wanted to see if there is any indication that the Society allows DNA evidence as one of the "two or three witnesses" requirements when it comes to testimony in child molestation or rape cases in the congregation.
  
  We all know that molesters and rapists usually make sure that nobody is watching when they work their evil. We all know that DNA has been a godsend to our justice system. While not perfect, it's a far cry from the oft-predjudiced human witness.
  
  The following find from a 1989 Awake sounded encouraging to me.
  
  *** g89 8/8 p. 31 Small but Significant Clues ***
  But this chemical decision-maker is now being used to help in making a different kind of decision: whether men will go free or go to prison, live or die. The very uniqueness of each individual’s DNA has opened the way to a new method of identifying individuals, called DNA fingerprinting.
  
  Since DNA is found in virtually all the cells of the body and in most body fluids, criminals may be convicted because of leaving behind a few hairs or a bit of skin, even a wad of chewing gum. The new technique has been especially effective against sex offenders. Already, rapists who adamantly denied their guilt have been convicted by their own DNA. One murderer was sent to the electric chair on the strength of such testimony.
  
  
  However, the 1998 Watchtower quote that follows, seems to exhibit their current stance on how imperfect DNA can be -- in, of course, their opinion.
  
  *** w98 6/15 p. 28 True Justice -- When and How? ***
  Once a case reaches court, decisions may be affected not only by what witnesses say but also by scientific evidence. In the increasingly complicated field of forensics, judge or jury may be called upon to decide guilt or innocence based on ballistics or the identification of fingerprints, handwriting, blood groups, hair color, textile threads, or DNA samples. One lawyer noted that courts are faced with "batteries of scientists describing procedures of bewildering complexity."
  
  Moreover, the magazine Nature notes that not all scientists agree on the interpretation of forensic evidence. "There can be genuine disagreement between forensic scientists." Sad to say, "faulty forensic evidence has already been responsible for more than its fair share of faulty convictions."
  
  No matter where we live, all judicial systems currently in operation reflect human shortcomings. So whom can we trust to protect the innocent?
  
  I could be wrong in my search. I would be obliged to anybody who can show me otherwise, that the Society indeed accepts DNA as evidence -- supplanting a second human witness requirement that they feel bound by.
  
  Fats
• 
  4

  Coming to a knowledge of the Truth, Progressive Disclosure?

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found the following definition interesting: .

  progressive disclosure, a technique for hiding the complexity of an interface by presenting the user with the primary or common options or choices at the topmost level, and then revealing more advanced or complex options ... .

  does the wt use this technique as well when bringing new ones along?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  I've learned much on this thread. I suspected, at first, the Society may be using Progressive Disclosure. This gives them far more credit than they deserve. Selective Disclosure could be closer to the truth as they reveal certain teaching reversals because of certain political pressure. Then comes Terry's beautiful description of the WT's true innards -- the nuts and bolts as they work today.

  A good day for me is when I've learned.

  Fats
• 
  4

  Coming to a knowledge of the Truth, Progressive Disclosure?

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found the following definition interesting: .

  progressive disclosure, a technique for hiding the complexity of an interface by presenting the user with the primary or common options or choices at the topmost level, and then revealing more advanced or complex options ... .

  does the wt use this technique as well when bringing new ones along?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  I found the following definition interesting:

  Progressive Disclosure, A technique for hiding the complexity of an interface by presenting the user with the primary or common options or choices at the topmost level, and then revealing more advanced or complex options ...
  msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwue/html/gloss.asp

  Does the WT use this technique as well when bringing new ones along?

  If they do, is it proper?

  For example, does the publisher reveal all the missed date predictions on his/her first call? Or is it better to wait till the hooks are in a little deeper?
  Fats
• 
  29

  The 'issue' of masturbation. (not a rude thread lol)

  by KW13 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  forgive me for being nieve here... .

  the watchtowers reasons for masturbation are wrong?

  they say that god punished some guy cos his sperm was wasted..not entirely true but lets run with that for a second.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  JWCOL: Masturbation is said to be unclean.

  Can you source that for us, please? Who said it? What said it?

  Fats
• 
  29

  The 'issue' of masturbation. (not a rude thread lol)

  by KW13 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  forgive me for being nieve here... .

  the watchtowers reasons for masturbation are wrong?

  they say that god punished some guy cos his sperm was wasted..not entirely true but lets run with that for a second.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  KW13: "...the watchtowers reasons for masturbation are wrong? they say that God punished some guy cos his sperm was wasted"
  
  If you're referring to the incident with Onan, masturbation is not their argument.
  
  *** yp chap. 25 p. 201 Masturbation—How Serious Is It? ***
  God executed Onan for ‘wasting his semen on the earth.’ However, interrupted intercourse, not masturbation, was involved. Furthermore, Onan was executed because he selfishly failed to perform brother-in-law marriage in order to continue his deceased brother’s family line. (Genesis 38:1-10) What of the “emission of semen” mentioned at Leviticus 15:16-18? This apparently refers, not to masturbation, but to a nocturnal emission as well as to marital sexual relations.
  
  Fats
• 
  27

  Am I angry? Hell, yes!

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why are departing jw's bitter?

  i say the bitterness is directly proportional to the amount of emotional committment we made to their teachings.

  if we accepted them wholeheartedly, the bitterness was immense as we discovered the lies and coverups, while getting the blame on the missed date predictions, and seeing the ever-increasing legalistic structure of the society, not to even mention the shunning by loved ones who still remain.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  BTTT
• 
  27

  Am I angry? Hell, yes!

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why are departing jw's bitter?

  i say the bitterness is directly proportional to the amount of emotional committment we made to their teachings.

  if we accepted them wholeheartedly, the bitterness was immense as we discovered the lies and coverups, while getting the blame on the missed date predictions, and seeing the ever-increasing legalistic structure of the society, not to even mention the shunning by loved ones who still remain.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  PeacefulPete: Everyone is vulnerable to group think and control. ... The WTS is just one of hundreds of high control religious groups that perennially abuse the trust of their members.

  Agreed, of course. But I, along with most on this forum, are focused and interested in the specific abuse that we've received at the hands of the WTBTS . We know firsthand that it's happening, we think we know some of the mechanics of why it's happening, and therefore we are in a unique eyewitness position and can pass along our experiences to help new ones and lurkers who happen by.

  This, in no way, diminishes the horrors that other groups may experience. Those groups, in turn, will have their own activists who can pass along similar help.

  I, for one, will not passively sit by and not help, or caution, others that are (or were) in my same situation.

  Fats
• 
  27

  Am I angry? Hell, yes!

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why are departing jw's bitter?

  i say the bitterness is directly proportional to the amount of emotional committment we made to their teachings.

  if we accepted them wholeheartedly, the bitterness was immense as we discovered the lies and coverups, while getting the blame on the missed date predictions, and seeing the ever-increasing legalistic structure of the society, not to even mention the shunning by loved ones who still remain.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  Acadian -- Nope, I don't see the benifit in being angry. I took the 10% 1% that was good and tossed the rest in the garbage, and continued on the path of life.

  You, and all who have expressed the "no benefit" position in being angry are absolutely correct. Anger only hurts the one who possesses it. Taken too far it can even injure others.

  Perhaps anger was a bad choice of words on my part. I'm not sure I know correct one. I know that I don't feel hurt. I know I have as much passion for truth now as I ever did, perhaps more so now since we have the internet and it possible to source so many facts, and corroborate them more easily.

  I know now that my trust of the org then was entirely misplaced. Recall I got out before they implemented that (1985) as requirement number 2 in the two questions prior to baptism.

  You, Acadian, were able to do what I wasn't able to do -- that is, toss 99% of their teachings in the garbage. For you, the 1% was able to sustain you -- for awhile.
  
  For me it was the very 1% that hovered on my back burner of doubts. The more of these that accumulated there came a point of saturation, enough to cause me to start checking things out.

  Fats
• 
  27

  Am I angry? Hell, yes!

  by Fatfreek in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why are departing jw's bitter?

  i say the bitterness is directly proportional to the amount of emotional committment we made to their teachings.

  if we accepted them wholeheartedly, the bitterness was immense as we discovered the lies and coverups, while getting the blame on the missed date predictions, and seeing the ever-increasing legalistic structure of the society, not to even mention the shunning by loved ones who still remain.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fatfreek

  Why are departing JW's bitter? I say the bitterness is directly proportional to the amount of emotional committment we made to their teachings. If we accepted them wholeheartedly, the bitterness was immense as we discovered the lies and coverups, while getting the blame on the missed date predictions, and seeing the ever-increasing legalistic structure of the Society, not to even mention the shunning by loved ones who still remain.
  I say a minority of those leaving the organization fit into this category. Many of the elders and the gung-ho sisters fit here. Most of the Bethelites, pioneers, and district and circuit overseers probably fit as well. Probably most of the posters on this forum would fall in this class.
  I say further that a majority fit into the mold of what we called the "other brothers", those who seldom made their quotas, lacked in taking responsibility, and attended the meetings sporadically. At our elder meetings a number -- 80 or 90 percent -- frequently got bandied around, this being the ratio of the brothers fitting this group. Those with not a lot of emotional committment, those who could care less one way or the other.
  I could be wrong. Twenty-nine years out after a twenty-one year hitch.
  
  Fats