The Bible is simply the stories and musings of some bronze-aged middle easterners who were trying to maintain some control over a band of desert dwellers and trying to make a nation out of them. It has no more and no less relevance than ancient Chinese or Egyptian stories.
Posts by donny
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42Is the Bible just as fake as the JW's
by BackSlider init seems that the more i research, the more i find that it's all just a big scam.
is there any evidence that even the bible isn't just another big religion/government scam?
would we listen to putin or obama if they told us they have verified new holy writings?
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God's dates, not ours
by donny inas a former jehovah's witness, i now sit back and marvel how well i had been suckered into this religion.
and to think that their own worst critic was their own publications.. in 1968 some 43 years had lapsed since their last firm prediction on when armageddon would occur.
they had predicted 1925 would see an end to the worlds suffering and a new world for the true believers, i.e.
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donny
I love the quote where they said they " have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect."
What a load of humus! In the 8/15/68 Watchtower they were sending a statement to those who were quoting Jesus' words that no one knew the day or the hour.
One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows , neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour"!
And in the same magazine they tried to make the case that their timing may be off, but only slightly.
"Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. " Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.499
So even if October 1975 passed and nothing happened, surely it would occur sometime in 1976. But by the summer of 76, they began releasing statements that the rand and file misread what the Society had been saying and took the year 1975 and ran away with it.
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9
God's dates, not ours
by donny inas a former jehovah's witness, i now sit back and marvel how well i had been suckered into this religion.
and to think that their own worst critic was their own publications.. in 1968 some 43 years had lapsed since their last firm prediction on when armageddon would occur.
they had predicted 1925 would see an end to the worlds suffering and a new world for the true believers, i.e.
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donny
As a former Jehovah's Witness, I now sit back and marvel how well I had been suckered into this religion. And to think that their own worst critic was their own publications.
In 1968 some 43 years had lapsed since their last firm prediction on when Armageddon would occur. They had predicted 1925 would see an end to the worlds suffering and a new world for the true believers, i.e. followers of Judge Rutherford, the Watchtower Society's second president.
Just a few years earlier Rutherford was on his nationwide circuit giving his stirring talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." Unlike today where most non-JW's could not name anyone on the current Governing Body or who the president of the Society is, Joseph "Judge" Rutherford was fairly well known in Christian circles of the day.
Rutherford was so adamant that 1925 would usher in the New Order he had this to say in reply to those who questioned it.
"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith then Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." Watch Tower 1923 Apr 1 p.106.
That is a pretty bold statement. He says his word is more sound than God supposedly talking directly to Noah.
The following year he said that 1925 even eclipsed the pivotal 1914."The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914;…" Watchtower 1924 Jul 15 p.211
It was not a matter of opinion...oh no!. It was definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures. It was a fact and no truly consecrated child of God would question it.
A few years after 1925 passed, it became less and less "clearly marked" until it was not even highlighted. Eventually they would try to apply some "White-Out" to that definite date.
43 years go by and the growth in the organization has been limp at best in the ten years leading up to 1967. They need something to charge up the faithful and there is no better way to do that than to give a new date for "that day." And that date would be 1975.
Now the fact that there have been "those" others who have predicted dates and nothing came of them. Let's see what they had to say about "those" types.
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.23
So by their own words they were condemning their prior declarations and stating that Jehovah was not using them, but JW's of the day saw "those" as other folks, now-JW's, who were proclaiming those despicable statements.
What was notable about this period is that the Society was much more loose in what was going to occur in 1975 in speech than what they had to say in print.
Charles Sunutko, a District Overseer in the Sheboygan, Wisconisin area had this to say in the talk "Serving with Everlasting Life in View" that was delivered at the 1967 District Convention.
"Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975. Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then. As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five""
To hear this talk check out the wonderful site "JWFacts.com" which contains much more about JW's and their many false prophecies.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1975.php
They also had this to say this about that pivotal year.
"Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4
Of course 1975 came and went and nothing happened. Nada, Zilch, Zero.
So what do you do? Well you do the most logical thing, blame the rank and file Witnesses.
The 07/15/76 Watchtower, page 441, had this to say about those who looked to 1975 as a special year.
"But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such as things that we and our families really need. We may be forgetting that, when the “day” comes, it will not change the principle that Christians must at all times take care of all their responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises."
This elicited even more anger from the rank and file because they knew that they had not dreamed this up on their own, this had come from those appointed to hand out "meat in due season."
Finally in 1980 they admitted that the ones running the organization were culpable in feeding the frenzy about 1975.
"With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man's existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. ... Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility ." Watchtower 1980 Mar 15 p.17
Most of today's JW's are either unaware of this example of their "Faithful and Discreet Slave" disseminating this outright false prophecy or they hind behind statement like the following;
"Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'" Awake! 1993 Mar 22 p.4
This same organization earlier had this to say about the dates put forth in their publications.
"We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we could. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
Well I guess we can surmise from these statements that Jehovah is like an old man who recalls old times but mixes up the time period and when called on it simple declares "You know me, I am terrible with dates."
For those looking for a great podcast that talks about JW's, Mormons or just any old religion, check out DogmaDebate.com with David Smalley.
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Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."
by donny inback in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.
" although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.
the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".
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donny
Thanks you Phizzy. I was able to help my two daughters see the Society for what it is, but my son is still in its grip. Hopefully he will reason his way out one day.
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Hello and Thank You!
by Vintagewife ini've been lurking here for about 3 months and decided it was time to register and become active.
i left the organization 17 years ago.
like so many of you, i had endured less than christian behavior from the strong cliches that ran our congregation.
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donny
Welcome to JWN!!! We look forward to your future posts.
Donny Ray
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Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."
by donny inback in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.
" although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.
the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".
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donny
I still find it amazing that I took as long as I did to see the flaws. They kept you so busy with meetings, field service and quick-build Kingdom Hall projects that you just did not have any energy to expend on looking for flaws in their teachings. Thank "God" for the internet.
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God Says Scripture is Enough
by Perry infrom the 2013 new world translation 2 tim.
all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.. .
as jw's we must have read that scripture a thousand times.
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donny
It's strange that for 3/4 of the history of Christianity, the so-called word of God was not available to anyone except the clergy, yet the churches survived. Then in the 1400's when the first bibles began to be mass produced it not only led to mass disagreements to what it actually said, but they could not even agree which books should be part of the sacred canon and which ones should not.
Then there were disagreements as to which of the many, many versions were the most accurate. I just recently watched a debate between the KJV only crowd and ones supporting other versions. At the end of the debate I could only surmise that the KJV only group believed as tehy did just because they wanted to and not because of any reasonable points made.
It is obvious that the first century church only relied on the Old Testament as the "all scripture beneficial for teaching." It was not until some two centuries later that anything resembling the New Testament was assembled.
I find it amazing that the supposed "Most High" being used text as a means of people getting to know him, her or it. And not only using text, but text written in three languages and then subjected to all of the translation and interpretation we see today.
If God was trying to send a clear message via text, then he has failed miserably. The plethora of Christian denominations, each one claming they have the correct understanding, attests to that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
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Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."
by donny inback in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.
" although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.
the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".
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donny
Unfortunatley Crazyguy, people will not wake up until they want to be awakened.
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Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."
by donny inback in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.
" although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.
the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".
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donny
Back in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "Reasoning from the Scriptures." Although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.
It wasn't until I actually used reasoning as a tool that I was able to break the shackles of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
For me it was the issue of Jesus selecting the Watchtower Society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.
As I began perusing though the Society's older publications, I discovered that their teaching of Jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed. The 01/15/1993 Watchtower had this to say on page 5.
"The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914. Events since that year testify to Jesus invisible presence."
I would soon discover that statements like this were outright deceptions.
The first president of the Watchtower Society, Charles Russell, had befriended a man named Nelson Barbour who published a religious magazine called "Herald of the Morning." Russell became fascinated with the biblical chronology laid out by Barbour and especially liked the scriptural reasoning that Jesus was to return in 1874.
When that time passed and nothing happened Barbour became disillusioned. Russell however latched on to the fact that the Greek word "parousia", usually translated as "coming" or "arrival", could also mean "presence". When Russell suggested that Jesus did return in 1874 invisibly and that he was indeed present, Barbour rejected it and he and Russell went their separate ways.
In 1879 Russell founded the Watchtower Society and began a ministry based on this understanding that Jesus returned in 1874. This statement of belief was repeated in the Society's publications as late as 1929 and was not officially rejected until 1943.
So why did I think that this particular "old light" carried more weight than most of their other "adjustments?"
Simply put because the Society claimed that it was because of the truthfulness of its teachings that led Jesus to select them.
But there is a problem here. If one reasons about this claim then it soon becomes obvious that Jesus either did not select them at all or he was in a trance due to sniffing too much mustard seed.
If he had really looked at the Society after he sat on his throne in 1914, the first thing that should be obvious to him was that the Watchtower was in the midst of a flurry of false predictions and they could not blame them on "Christendom."
First of all, they were not "on the watch for his return" as the organization claims today. They were not watching for such because they currently believed he had retuned and been present since 1874 and took power in 1878. This was being taught well before and well after 1914.
"... 1874 as the time of our Lord's second presence as Bridegroom and Reaper, and to April 1878 as the time when he began to exercise his office of King of kings and Lord of lords ..." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come (1911 ed.) p.150
"Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable." Watchtower 1922 Nov 1 p.333"Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" Watchtower 1924 Jan 1 p.5)
"The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D." Prophecy 1929 1,589,000 ed. p.65
So a reasoning person is supposed to believe that Jesus began examining the worlds religions after he took power in 1914 and 5 years later he not only selected a group who was spewing loads of false prophecies, i.e. God would destroy the churches in 1918 and the worldly governments in 1920, he also selected a group was in the middle of a false campaign stating that he had returned some 40 years prior.
It was reasoning on this claim that finally opened my eyes to the deceitfulness of the "faithful and discreet slave. They were neither faithful or discreet and I became convinced that the Governing Body was fully aware of this deception and their only interest was in controlling the thoughts and actions of others.
So I tendered a letter of disassociation on September 1, 1992 and 24 years later I am glad I made that fateful decision in spite of the agony and mental aguish I encountered in the first few years after leaving. From time to time I would recall the lyrics of Boston's song "Don't Look Back."
Don't look back, A new day is breakin'
It's been too long since I felt this wayFor those of you still in the grips of the Society, do yourself a favor and actually use reason as a tool to decipher what the Watchtower teaches and see if it really measures up to its nickname "The Truth."
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I never realized that Hitler's persecution of the Witnesses was worse than that of the Jews
by ThomasCovenant in'the terrible persecution of jehovahs witnesses by hitler, worse than that he inflicted on the jews, took place.
'' wt 1966 15th oct page 635.
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donny
I remember a Watchtower article written by late Governing Body memeber Martin Poetzinger where he stated the reason that the JW deaths were true martyrs compared to the Jewish ones was because the Jews had no choice in the matter, they would die regardless of any action on their part.
However all a JW had to do was renounce the faith and they would be released, so those would remained steadfast and were executed were doing so because they really loved God.
Donny