Posts by Cassiline

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Aaron my argument is not a female v male argument I am sorry if it came off that way, although I feel since you are not able to have children then you truly have no right to impose your choice on women. You are the one who stated that men and woman enjoy equal rights. I pointed out otherwise. You are not forced to give your organs or tissue for that of your dying son or daughter or cousin.

You of course may want to do such but you have the right to choose not to. While we as woman because we are able to become pregnant via force, consent, or accident while you can not as a man. Women should deserve the same choice under the same law which does not force you to give your organs/tissue to another.

And if we move onto those with religious based beliefs against abortion IMO it all comes down to interpretation of that which one reads. How can we as imperfect men and women claim to know what was meant? How are we assured today that each side is correct in their analysis and interpretation?

We have both sides who say, no, no, no! it was meant this was or that way! If the bible were meant to be so clear do you not think that God would have made it so there was not so much uncertainty to those ?simple? humans who are imperfect?

But alas we have hundreds of religions with hundreds of interpretations of that they read. Who is to say whose is correct? You who would judge others or those who judge others because they supposedly are not doing the right thing?

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. (NIV) Matthew 7:1-2

I use to believe that this was the simplest verse in the bible to understand, unfortunately there are those who look for and find scriptures where they claim God did indeed give them to right to judge others and will interpret such to fit their means.

Some claim that the scriptures below make a case for abortion (these and many others), but I have also read the converse and know both sides. The supposed changing of Hebrew words etc. My point is anyone can think or believe they know what God wants.

But do you really, you are far from perfect ( as the bible states) so how do you truly know you are correct any more so than the Buddhist or those who believe in Hinduism or Muslim Beliefs? How are you so sure that your religion is the right one? I find it hard to believe with hundreds out there so many are wrong. We are imperfect therefore how do we truly know?

"If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things, and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, `Better the miscarriage than he, for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity. It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he.'"
Ecclesiastes 6:3-5

"Then I looked again at all the acts of oppression which were being done under the sun. And behold I saw the tears of the oppressed and that they had no one to comfort them; and on the side of their oppressors was power, but they had no one to comfort them. So I congratulated the dead who are already dead more than the living who are still living. But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun."
Ecclesiastes 4:1-3

"And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
Exodus 21:22-25

If one wants to they can take the issue of rape and murder and make it right by taking passages out of context in the Bible. Why again would God make it so hard for us understand if indeed life were that simple. Why would God want his message so hard to understand for millions?

The one this I do know that here on the planet life is terminal and to life the fullest life we can without trying to impose our own choices onto those who may disagree with another set of values or choices.

Cassi

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Cassiline

Women have no more rights then men have.

Woman have fought for the same right as men have for years. No one forces you to give up your organs and tissue to support another life and WE as women should not be forced to as well. Therefore we do not under pro life have the same rights as men. We are looked at as second class citizens who are demanded to what others want when it could cost our life and liberty.

How many children of need have you adopted Aaron?

All you are asking for is the right to play around sexually and avoid the consequences, regardless of who you hurt.

Patently untrue.

That sounds pretty selfish to me.

Sounds pretty selfish to me that you are willing to ask/demand of us what YOU DO not have to do. If men could get pregnant then this whole debate would have never come into play.

You have your right to act how you want, but you must face up to the consequences.

Yes, we do NOT YOU. The man is responsible here for much of this as well. Dead beat dads all over the world, which has been a lot of a problem that has only recently been addressed in history. Women dealing with the child while the men refused over and over not to take any reponsibility. I realize there are women who are guilty of such as well, but time and again it is 99% the man who just forgets his responsibility.

Cassi

PS are you Aaron from Tim's board? If so welcome and good to see you.

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Cassiline

First, I was talking about a different person, Norma is not Franklin, I wanted a perspective on Norma alone rather just just carry Franklin's story in the same heap as Norma.

The second two paragraphs of my post do deal with her. This is why I say 'she'/ 'her' throughout those paragraphs. In a nutshell Yiz, she found religion and wishes to change the past, yet at the time wanted a choice--so much so she claims she lied to get such a choice. She changed her mind and this does not mean because she changed-- that it makes her choice today-- wrong.

Do you know how many people in prison have become born again christians? Just about all of them say.. "I found God.. therefore forgive me for my sins, release me", and this somehow changes the past!?!?! Does that erase what they did to begin with Yiz? I honestly do not care that she 'found God' in her own words, it does not change that both God and I can exercise our 'right to choose'. If as I said to Genericman if what you are saying is based on religion-- which it seeems her stance is, then what does it mean to you that God killed babies (a fetus) before abortion was legal? That it is his choice and his alone? I find it hard to believe that a benevolent god can judge those who 'choose' as he did, as harshly as those like yourself who judge those who wish to choose-- as a benevolent God did.

Do you believe there are thousands of babies frozen in fertility clinics? That being fertilized eggs, Yiz.

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Cassiline

Hi Yiz!
I believe I already have -indirectly when I wrote in reply to you response to Franklin's story. I will repeat it just in case you missed it.
Nice dodge, this is a woman who was responsible for making Abortion legal back in 1973 and she did an about face after all these years and you have no say to this woman who made it happen for you to kill your babies? Yiz

About face!! Yiz, Hurry your ass is showing. Just as in the thread where you accused Simon of highjacking and you did not see what was written perhaps you need read and SEE everything I wrote? Here for the THIRD time, just in case you miss it ( which you did or pretend to ) here it is again: ( perhaps you should have your eyesight checked?)

Cass, No words about Norma McCorvey? Yiz
Hi Yiz! I believe I already have -indirectly when I wrote in reply to you response to Franklin's story. I will repeat it just in case you missed it.
Because someone's views have changed over the years does not make what decisions that were discussed in the past any less signifiant in the matter of choice, he/she, they, still had the option of choice when they wanted to exercise it. Cassi
Do you know how many people in prison have become born again christians? Just about all of them say.. "I found God.. therefore forgive me for my sins, release me", and this somehow changes the past!?!?! Does that erase what they did to begin with Yiz? I honestly do not care that she 'found God' in her own words, it does not change that both God and I can exercise our 'right to choose'. If as I said to Genericman if what you are saying is based on religion-- which it seeems her stance is, then what does it mean to you that God killed babies (a fetus) before abortion was legal? That it is his choice and his alone? I find it hard to believe that a benevolent god can judge those who 'choose' as he did, as harshly as those like yourself who judge those who wish to choose-- as a benevolent God did.

Your barbs (highlighted in red) only serve to show you and your ilk for what you are. Have a good evening!! and a good night! Cassi, hopeful class

17

SIlver Ring Thing in the UK - doomed to failure

by Abaddon in

jw
friends

i've seen coverage of this band of celibates before.

they're one of the groups spearheading abstinance-based sex 'education' in the usa.. despite not one shred of proof that it works in reducing teen pregnancy or std infection rates, this is the flavour of the month under the bush administration.. in tv coverage i heard one of the councillers telling teenagers that condoms could not prevent the transmission of virus particles.

if the abstinance-based idea is such a good thing, i wonder why they have to misinform people?.

Cassiline

Meeker, a nationally known pediatrician and author of the book, "Epidemic -- How Teen Sex Is Killing Our Kids," presented the audience with some startling information about the results of having sex at younger ages.
"Sex is really, really cool, but not for kids," Meeker announced as a way to grab the attention of the audience.
She explained to the crowd that it was important to their health to wait until they were older to begin having sex.
"One thing that we doctors now know is that your bodies are very different than when you are an adult and the cells in your body are very different than your cells will be when you are older," Meeker said. Because of the difference in cell structure, she said, young bodies are more susceptible to germs and more susceptible to disease.
"When germs come into contact with your young cells, they can become cancer much easier," Meeker said.

This is really irritating, as I have never seen a study to justify such a statement that germs cause cancer. I may have believed such as a JW but this is nonesense. If you want to look at children ( as in pre-teen) are they not more so unhygenic then what most would want, then most adults are today? Sneeking out of the bathroom without washing hands, eating off the floor? Wiping thier noses with their hands and then eating, and eating out of a friends hand which has just done the same? If this were the case then every child/adult should end up with cancer at any stage in their life.

Take it a bit further, I've never seen a single study which suggests that a child, not a teen who decides to have sex, but a child who has been the victim of pedophilia/rape has a higher chance of being the victim of cancer. What about cultures which promote early marriage? And those here in the states which can be studied easily? I would think if cancer were the result of rape or insest at a young age lawyers everywhere and D.A.s would be either suing or convicting criminals. Not only on charges of rape and incest but attempted murder or attempted manslaughter and after death from this cancer causing forced sex--murder-- Lawyers pockets would be larger than they are now if indeed it existed.

On top of that seems to me to be a lie-- government grants are paying for bibles to be passed around to these children to ensure what? Certaintly not seperation of church and state.

Cassi

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Cassiline

Cass, No words about Norma McCorvey? Yiz

Hi Yiz! I believe I already have -indirectly when I wrote in reply to you response to Franklin's story. I will repeat it just in case you missed it.

Because someone's views have changed over the years does not make what decisions that were discussed in the past any less signifiant in the matter of choice, he/she, they, still had the option of choice when they wanted to exercise it. Cassi

Do you know how many people in prison have become born again christians? Just about all of them say.. "I found God.. therefore forgive me for my sins, release me", and this somehow changes the past!?!?! Does that erase what they did to begin with Yiz? I honestly do not care that she 'found God' in her own words, it does not change that both God and I can exercise our 'right to choose'. If as I said to Genericman if what you are saying is based on religion-- which it seeems her stance is, then what does it mean to you that God killed babies (a fetus) before abortion was legal? That it is his choice and his alone? I find it hard to believe that a benevolent god can judge those who 'choose' as he did, as harshly as those like yourself who judge those who wish to choose-- as a benevolent God did. Cassi

7

Would you Sue?

by sandy in

jw
friends

for medical malpractice if:.

you were sick from july of 2003 to may of 2004 and didn't even know about it because the doctors never informed you?.

and on top of that you can prove that you never even took a test that happens to show you were sick.. the doctors have a test result of an ultra sound showing i had a large mass back in july 2003. a test i never even took.. the strange thing is i was sick.

Cassiline

And on top of that you can prove that you never even took a test that happens to show you were sick.
The Doctors have a test result of an ultra sound showing I had a large mass back in July 2003. A test I never even took.

Hi Sandy

You confused me a bit there, well more than a bit. But if you are ill and the doctors did not produce such to tell you that you were. I would first find out if the mass has any ill effects to your health, i.e., you can't get pregnant now or you have lost a baby because of such-- you are dying of cancer or have lost organs to such because they failed to treat you at a proper time.

If this is the case and the outcome is going to cost you your life or that of another then yes I may think of such. However if you are planing to sue. I would not comment any further in public, where what you say may be used aginst you in your suit. Here on the net to be exact.

If they have given you the wrong results as your seem to say in the above quote, then I would chalk it down to human error and hope that it never happens again and the Dr learns from his/her mistake.

Cassi

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Cassiline

Thanks for the reply, Cass! You took a long time to write that.

Bebu

Perhaps I took a long time to see it? 30 some minutes and now my goodness-- I hope I am not graded next time!

Truly, I am sorry to seem like I was picking on you. And I completely agree that it is just as inflammatory for pro-lifers to call pro-choicers "murderers and killers". (That would really ruffle my feathers!)

That is where we disagree, IMO what I said to those who do not want to support the right to choose is not inflammatory?where as, you do see the misgivings of your associates on this thread. There is not a ?just as? situation here, except one you have taken exception to. You fail to realize pro-lifers judge women and children every day for something they will NOT take the same responsibility you are asking them to.

I have been hitting and missing several posts, due to an outdoor project I'm involved in. It's my fault for not reading all the posts, and I apologize. If people could imagine that those who disagree with them politically--whatever the issue, USUALLY!--aren't all "inherently evil" , it would make listening and being heard a lot easier.

Believe me I hear you and I have listened to you, we just disagree.

I do not think you are evil, never have and never will. As a matter of fact I use to-- even after JW life, agree with your point of view. But parading around clinics with obscene pictures (many a judge would throw out of court as being inflammatory) as I used to see out in field service is not something I ever aspire to do nor would have done when I did not understand all the facts of pro choice and pro life. I was, as a child, scared and scared by such and would not want to ever force such pictures onto a child as when I first viewed them--EVER.

Because, most of the people I know who are pro-choice are simply not sitting at home rubbing their hands, scheming of how to get more women to abort. They are actually thinking about the mother and the very difficult situation she is facing. They want to protect her! That is not a bad thing!

You are correct and I agree, as a matter of fact I will take it one step further and say I have never heard of anyone who agrees with ?choice? looking for candidates for such. That is absurd.

Oftentimes, the woman who aborts does NOT think she is hurting anyone at all, so it is hard to see how she could be so evil.

(color mine)

Not only do I see people calling those who wish to ?choose? murderers and killers but now ?evil? as you write above after you called for no insults to be thrown that only you seem to see.

There may be some who truly don't care about children and ridicule those who care about the unborn to any degree, but surely they must be the minority.
Pro-lifers have been guilty of being nasty, too. Perhaps they are being honest when they say that they think someone is murdering their child--but it is another step for these people to impute to all those women evil motives. Yet it isn't accurate to impute evil or selfish motives to pro-lifers because of their point of view.

Who, prey tell assigned any evil motives to any pro-lifer on this thread? Let me ask you a question please, Do you believe there are thousands/millions of babies frozen in fertility clinics? Are those who freeze such guilty of murder and evil as well? Or is that ok because some day?yes some day they may be unfrozen?implanted and finally born to take their first breath? Is the arsonist who burns down a fertility clinic with hundreds of ferterlized eggs guilty of hundreds of murders as well as arson?

Most of them truly love children, and wouldn't go ballistic if their daughter got pregnant out-of-wedlock. There are some folks who would get so upset as to toss out their daughter--but they are also quite a minority.

The point is most women who assert their right to choose-- many have had children and do love children?that I think is being missed, they would kill you or anyone if you ever tried to rip their lives away-- sentencing their daughter to death if she were going to die because she were pregnant or loose the life they helped so hard to create in forming her future through teaching and rearing. They have asserted their right to end the life of a fetus not that of a child. Something we seem to agree on---when life start?we both ask the same--When does life begin?

No one was nasty here that I saw except pro-lifers period. Andrea Yeates is a murderer and Susan Smith.

There are nice and not-so-nice folks in both camps.

There sure are and I am quite aware of such, just from reading the pro-life responses here. However there were no responses for you to take exception to on this thread. No one judged you or called you any names.

Anyway, the knife cuts both ways. I'm sorry to simply 'pick' on you, and not have also mentioned other comments, as would have been appropriate. It would be ideal if all that could be dropped. I think that, more than anything, is what I meant to say. Anyway, as has been said, this thread has actually been fairly tame.

More than tame look up past threads dealing with such. Only knives I saw thrown were from camp ?Lima?.

BTW: I am so tired of the name-calling going on, from either side. We need to focus on the problem, and part of that means we refrain from calling the other side stubborn, pompous, ignorant, etc. Name-calling only alienates the people with whom we need to work toward a solution

Dealing with your original comment now... please show me one example of name calling by any person in this thread towards a pro lifer who was pro choice... please and thank you. Again I do believe it is those anti-choice parties who are so judgmental of themselves and the right to choose?not the other way around. Pro lifers judge constantly another?s choice to live and can only hope for the future and try to impose a future on fetuses that they refuse to take responsibility for or simply can?t.

Cassi

215

Abortion...

by Lostreality in

jw
friends

wrong or right?.

right to choose, or murder?.

what is everyones point of view?.

Cassiline

Since my words are being called offensive and judgmental lets keep it in prospective okay?

I said:

This I wholly agree with as well. Perhaps those who are so staunchly opposed to abortion offered at the tender 8-10 week stage to allow these fetuses to be explanted from the mother into themselves and assume full responsibility for said fetus I may understand their point more. Perhaps even champion their cause.

But also finished with:

Whole thing sound extreme? Yes, just as extreme as the pro-life ask of those who wish to terminate.

I think I have seen those who are pro life call those who are pro choice ?killers and murderers? here in this very thread. If you wish to be offended by what many ask of a child who have been raped such as Yiz or of a woman who wants the choice and have no regard for the mother?s life which may or may not be at stake?fine. I find it very hard to believe that there would be many who would be jumping at the chance to have a fetus whose parents are infected with aids and hep c implanted into their own bodies--- let alone a fetus who they know nothing about.

I do not think my words were inflammatory, judgmental or otherwise. I believe that when it comes right down to it, those who oppose abortion so vehemently would NOT do what I spoke of above and it tears at their conscience?thusly they judge themselves too hard?it?s not those who are in favor of choice. You may be one of the few who will, but until I see those who oppose abortion adopting children of need left and right, I believe I am allowed that opinion and do so without judgement.

Cassi

24

Army Recall of 5,600 Troops

by Cassiline in

army to call up retired, discharged troops

tuesday june 29, 2004 9:01 pm

ap photo mac105

Cassiline

No stop - loss in my MOS thus far (91R) - After Nov. I'll be in the IRR.

Wow, I had no idea what you did until I looked it up on AKO. It does not sound like an MOS in high demand for war time purposes. I wish you nothing but the best of luck in leaving when you are ready to ETS.

Cassi