Posts by fahrvegnugen

21

Bible verses or theological questions which "breaks" JW

by Shazard in

i am newbie here and i am not ex-jw.

christ managed to protect me, but my brother fell into this cult.

now coz of this i am confessional lutheran.

fahrvegnugen

Well Gary, here is a subject which we can completely agree on.

I remember the thoughts that went through my mind when a brother who had begun to have serious doubts started speaking to me about them. At the time I was a book study conductor and he was assigned to my group. As soon as I realized where he was leading the conversation, it was as if alarm bells were going off in my head ***APOSTASY ALERT--APOSTASY ALERT***. He brought it up again a couple of times while we were out in field service together and all I could think of was, 'Gee, poor brother so-and-so needs some help, he's really going off the deep end.'

Having this experience in mind, when I left I didn't bother trying to convince my family or acquaintances that their faith was misguided. I knew it would be a complete waste of time and only alienate them. When they're ready--they'll see it. In the meantime, I think the best thing that ex-JWs can do is to get on with their lives and not obsess over the past. Seeing members who left the group leading happy productive lives is the best "witness" you can give to your JW friends and relatives.

2

Hannukah

by aniron in

just listening to the radio and they said that the jewish festival "hannukah" starts today.

would jw's call it pagan because its celebrated on on 25th dec. is this not a reason for celebrating birth of christ today.

after all jesus celebrated a festival around that time, called the " feast of dedication" (john 10:22) .

fahrvegnugen

It's been a while, but I think the official JW position is that Hannukah is not a pagan holiday since Jews were celebrating it as part of their approved worship before they were "rejected" as the chosen people. It would however be seen as part of the Jewish customs which were replaced by Christianity, the New Covenant, etc. and hence not observed by JWs. So the end result is the same--faithful dubs would not celebrate/observe it.

69

Gaps in Fossil Record Disprove Evolution? What about Gaps in Creationism?

by Reluctant Buddha in

missing links disprove a theory???.

what about this one, creationists!!!.

real t-rex .

fahrvegnugen

I recall one of those "Watching the World" columns claiming that scientists had found an alligator-like fossil that apparently ate vegetation.

So of course, the Society latched onto that, but conveniently neglect to mention the mountains of other fossil finds which clearly demonstrate evolution.

3

Research into Jehovahs Witnesses

by truth finder in

i would encourage anyone to look into the ante-nicene fathers, or better yet you can ask the watchtower to send you some photocopies.

the watchtower employs bad scholarship, e.g.

plagiarism, misquotating, and insufficient information.

fahrvegnugen

That the WT Society has at times used questionable scholarship to advance its teachings, I would agree.

But your claim regarding the use of the definite article is a stretch that really doesn't prove anything at all. Greek uses the definite article for all sorts of common nouns that English and other languages don't. Therefore, in most uses of the word "lord" in Greek, one would expect for it to be accompanied by the article. Whether, you were referring to the lord of the universe, or the lord of a kingdom, etc--they will all be referred to as THE LORD in Greek. So the use of the definite article alone doesn't prove anything one way or another.

19

A Brief History

by Sentient in

i posted this in another forum and i was advised to repost it here as well, so here you go.

the is the first time i've posted in a jw related forum since some years ago when i was an ms, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family.

although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, i'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.

fahrvegnugen

You've been through a great deal, that's obvious, but, in reality, the more you come here and read you'll find your journey isn't much different from thousands of others. At the time we think we're alone; that we're the only ones going through this and no one understands us. Wrong! There are many, many, many people here who can identify 100% with everything you have written - and more - and you will undoubtedly identify with them.

Very well put. After making the break, the sense of isolation can be overwhelming. You thought you knew what was right, what the future held, what your place in this universe was--now suddenly you had reason to doubt the very foundations of your worldview and everything else came tumbling down like a house of cards. I remember literally feeling sick to my stomach, as if the ground had been pulled out from under my feet. It took a couple of years to sort of get my bearings and figure out where I fit into the wider world. In the meantime, sites like this where you can hear from others who have gone through the same experiences are invaluable.

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

I asked you whether such confidential information leaked out BEFORE or AFTER action was taken.

AuldSoul--In what is most likely a useless attempt to help you see that you don't know everything there is to know, the answer is--on many occasions--BEFORE. Is that clear enough for you?

I'm speaking of confidential matters in general--not sex abuse cases. In the half-dozen congregations that I was associated with during my lifetime, I only know of one incidence of alleged molestation. It was from a questionable source and the accused was not an elder. And to once again address your burning concern, I was aware of the situation BEFORE any action was taken. No I didn't know the bloody details of what was said in confidential meetings--I knew the jist of the accusations (as did most of the people in the congregation).

While it's certainly possible that there may have been other such incidents that I was not made aware of, the likelihood that there were enough of them to constitute the sort of grand scale which would justify characterizing JW's en masse as "nasty, child-abusers" is nil, zero, zilch. Comprende?

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

AuldSoul--I'm not interested in having a pissing contest with you. I'll only add this: If you actually believe that confidential matters which weren't supposed to make it past the elders didn't regularly leak out into the grapevine, then I don't hold a candle to you in the naivete department.

21

The Logos and Theos in John 1:1

by stev in

title: an examination of canon liddon's bampton lectures on the divinity of our lord and saviour jesus christ.

author: [voysey, charles], 1828-1912.

making of america books

fahrvegnugen

Ahhh, now I see. You are probably correct. Seeing as how the trinity doctrine is nearly universally accepted, I would guess that most translators/scholars would render it the traditional way.

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

Aude--

A true apologist for JWs (which I'm not) could offer you some examples of programs and arrangements that have been implemented at various times to address those very issues. Personally I don't put a lot of stock in those sort of things any more than I look to the government to provide programs on how to raise kids, etc.

What I can speak to--and had in mind--are the sort of people I grew up around and had relationships with while I was a Witness. And I would say that they are just like any other group of people that I've known since I left. Most were decent, some were rotten, some were humble and hospitable, some were self-righteous and uptight, and some would give you the shirt off their back or the last dollar they owned.

I left because I eventually realized that the belief-system which binds them together is just simply false, not because I had a problem with them as people. I agree that the teachings of the organization are in some aspects detrimental to the family, including children. Foremost among these is the repressive view of sexuality which children are saddled with. But this same fault is also shared by most brands of Christianity. I would also agree that the whole disfellowshipping arrangement is very detrimental--as I know first hand. But it is one thing to attack the policies of a religious organization, and quite another to make a blanket condemnation of its adherents as "nasty child haters." That was my point.