Posts by fahrvegnugen

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

I asked you whether such confidential information leaked out BEFORE or AFTER action was taken.

AuldSoul--In what is most likely a useless attempt to help you see that you don't know everything there is to know, the answer is--on many occasions--BEFORE. Is that clear enough for you?

I'm speaking of confidential matters in general--not sex abuse cases. In the half-dozen congregations that I was associated with during my lifetime, I only know of one incidence of alleged molestation. It was from a questionable source and the accused was not an elder. And to once again address your burning concern, I was aware of the situation BEFORE any action was taken. No I didn't know the bloody details of what was said in confidential meetings--I knew the jist of the accusations (as did most of the people in the congregation).

While it's certainly possible that there may have been other such incidents that I was not made aware of, the likelihood that there were enough of them to constitute the sort of grand scale which would justify characterizing JW's en masse as "nasty, child-abusers" is nil, zero, zilch. Comprende?

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

AuldSoul--I'm not interested in having a pissing contest with you. I'll only add this: If you actually believe that confidential matters which weren't supposed to make it past the elders didn't regularly leak out into the grapevine, then I don't hold a candle to you in the naivete department.

21

The Logos and Theos in John 1:1

by stev in

title: an examination of canon liddon's bampton lectures on the divinity of our lord and saviour jesus christ.

author: [voysey, charles], 1828-1912.

making of america books

fahrvegnugen

Ahhh, now I see. You are probably correct. Seeing as how the trinity doctrine is nearly universally accepted, I would guess that most translators/scholars would render it the traditional way.

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

Aude--

A true apologist for JWs (which I'm not) could offer you some examples of programs and arrangements that have been implemented at various times to address those very issues. Personally I don't put a lot of stock in those sort of things any more than I look to the government to provide programs on how to raise kids, etc.

What I can speak to--and had in mind--are the sort of people I grew up around and had relationships with while I was a Witness. And I would say that they are just like any other group of people that I've known since I left. Most were decent, some were rotten, some were humble and hospitable, some were self-righteous and uptight, and some would give you the shirt off their back or the last dollar they owned.

I left because I eventually realized that the belief-system which binds them together is just simply false, not because I had a problem with them as people. I agree that the teachings of the organization are in some aspects detrimental to the family, including children. Foremost among these is the repressive view of sexuality which children are saddled with. But this same fault is also shared by most brands of Christianity. I would also agree that the whole disfellowshipping arrangement is very detrimental--as I know first hand. But it is one thing to attack the policies of a religious organization, and quite another to make a blanket condemnation of its adherents as "nasty child haters." That was my point.

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

One man's abuse is another man's "rod of reproof." One man's abuse is another man's "rebuke." One man's abuse is another man's "inculcat[ion]." And in addition to these forms of abuse, there are those who either sexually abuse or protect sexual abusers from criminal consequences of their heinous acts.
I take it you didn't serve as an elder for long, if at all.

On your first point: If spanking constitutes child abuse, then you can label 90% of the country as "nasty child abusers," not just the Witnesses. They are no better or worse than any other group of the population in this regard.

Secondly, I never served as an elder. I was a MS and pioneer. But that is irrelevant, since anyone who has actually been a JW for any length of time knows that word always gets around in the congregation regarding any serious improprieties. Spend one day driving around in a cargroup full of pioneer sisters and you will know everything there is to know and more.

I stand by what I said. Yes there have been incidents of sexual abuse, etc. among JWs just as there have been among any other group. But to claim that this is somehow typical of Witnesses or that they "hate children" is just patently false.

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

Well Gary I also had 30 years experience with them--all from the inside and I can honestly say that I never knew anyone who hated children or even any children who were abused. Are there cases of it--of course. And just like the Catholic Church, the organization should be held accountable if they didn't fulfill their duty to protect victims.

But to characterize the Witnesses as a whole as 'nasty people who abuse children' is factually, demonstrably incorrect. At least it's not true of the ones I knew--and that was a hell of a lot of 'em.

7

How many languages?

by cheeseman in

was there really just one language before the tower of babel shinanigans?.

what do scholars make of this?

cheers.

fahrvegnugen

Yay!!! Happy Festivus, PP :)

Yes, I love it! "A Festivus for the rest of us."

21

The Logos and Theos in John 1:1

by stev in

title: an examination of canon liddon's bampton lectures on the divinity of our lord and saviour jesus christ.

author: [voysey, charles], 1828-1912.

making of america books

fahrvegnugen

TD--Not sure if I understand you here. Are you claiming that this passage as diagrammed in this introductory grammar to NT greek somehow settles the issue of whether the predicate noun--theos--is used qualitatively or not?

If so, I would humbly suggest that you are mistaken. There is nothing illustrated here that speaks to that issue at all, other than the fact that they give the standard English translation as one would expect them to do since this is an instructional grammar and not some sort of an in-depth commentary on the book of John.

In fact, in their comment they clearly state that the fact--logos--is accompanied by the definite article shows manifestly that it is the subject whereas--theos--is a predicate noun. Although they don't comment on the fact, this clearly leaves open the possibility that it is qualitative in nature. This takes us back to where we started--there is no smoking gun in this passage--it can be translated either way. One has to examine the context and make a determination as to what the author intended.

64

Pray for death of Apostates

by tsarina in

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i'm getting this all wrong.. i read on one of the web pages that the society has written "we should pray for the death of apostates".

i think this was a 2000 watchtower, but to be honest i was so shocked at reading it that i forgot to make a note.. .

can anybody enlighten me please??

fahrvegnugen

There's not a doubt in my mind. This is a religion of child haters.

Yeeesh! Try the decaf next time.

Seriously folks, I know we all have our legitimate gripes against the Witnesses, but some of the comments I read here are a bit over the top. I can't think of anything I experienced growing up as a Witness which would lead me to believe this was a "religion of child haters." More like a bunch of well-meaning but misguided do-gooders.

41

Tears, Outrage After Teacher Denies Santa Claus's Existence...

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

onder if the teacher is a jw.

http://www.ldnews.com/fastsearchresults/ci_3334327.

grinchy remark sends kids home in tears.

fahrvegnugen

I think the cultural custom of convincing children that Santa Claus exists, to the point where they are emotionally devastated when learning the truth, is one of the stupidest practices of all time. I have no sympathy for the custom whatsoever and I applaud this teacher being willing to risk the wrath of misguided parents.