where were you in the pecking order??
jws pride themselves as being different from "worldly" organizations and other religions.
they claim to have no clergy/laity groups.
Bible Study
Unbaptized Publisher
Publisher
Auxiliary Pioneer
Regular Pioneer
Ministerial Servant
Elder
Presiding Overseer
City Overseer
Circuit Overseer
District Overseer
Branch Overseer
Zone Overseer
Governing Body Member
Hierarchy? What hierarchy? We all be bros! They have evolved a hierarchy even more complex than the Catholic Church and claim to be superior because "we are all brothers". What a crock.
hi everyone.. i am here to look for others who are disgusted by the watchtower pushers like i used to be.
this cult makes me sick.
my whole family is in this cult and it is ruining my life..
Hey tonerlungs and beegee! Welcome to the party! You'll find much more here than you'll ever need to substantiate your conclusions. There is much to learn, and many willing to listen, as they nod their heads, saying, "I know. I know." And, if you're anywhere near VA, we're having a get-together in Richmond on October 20!
The faithful and non-discreet apostafest promoter.
no, i'm not here to defend them.
but you know how they love to get off on technicalities.
i'm sure all here would agree that the wt is extremely evasive, misleading, and intellectually dishonest (i.e.
It seems to me there has been a thread here regarding the Proclaimers book and all the misrepresentations they made in it regarding their history. Anyone know of any gems there?
shunning still hurts for me, i admit it.
though i have no common ground with these people any longer, it is just the idea that i am treated as evil for nothing more than exiting the religion.
i was in a chinese rest on wednesday.
Hey Jeff, I can empathize, man. When we sent our letters out, two of them went to the two closest friends of my lifetime, both elders I had known for decades. During their tenure, both had been unfaithful to their wives and subsequently DF'd. One kept it a secret for years and continued to serve as an elder until he finally confessed and was DF'd. They are both elders again, and I am out. The one that lived a "double life" didn't even bother to respond at all to the letter. The other one returned my letter unopened and marked "refused". Even though I have been married for almost 35 years and have never been unfaithful to my wife (nor done anything else deserving of WT DFing other than dissing "mother") they both assume a position of moral superiority to me. When I consider their behavior, I reluctantly wonder if I exhibited the same self-righteous attitude when I was in. I'm afraid we all did. Just the act of going from door-to-door to "share the good news" necessitates a moral posture that clearly suggests superiority.
http://origin.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6912406.
.
Too bad, Johnnie's dead.
"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit." Rhyming asshole.
Many people don't know that the Goldman family successfully sued him for millions, but have never collected a cent since he has all his assets protected in offshore corporations which are outside the jurisdiction of U.S. courts. Let's all root for karma. Yeah, complete karma.
ive read barbaras intro to the pedophile records and thought it might be useful to have a record here on the forum of the most damning and verifiable facts regarding the pedophilia situation.
sort of a summary.
that way we can all have a source to go to and be able to quickly summarize whats criminal about the way the society has used its authority in this matter.
Is anyone beginning to peruse one of the specific cases? If you do, please index it as you go and share. We can index specific pdf pages on a particular case to one of the current (or future) points in the basic list. With the references, this will be complete. That is, until the next bombshell!
(of the waiting for the other shoe to drop class.)
ive read barbaras intro to the pedophile records and thought it might be useful to have a record here on the forum of the most damning and verifiable facts regarding the pedophilia situation.
sort of a summary.
that way we can all have a source to go to and be able to quickly summarize whats criminal about the way the society has used its authority in this matter.
As for any of the 5,000 pages of court documents on Barb's CD, these are in the public domain and so they can be shared freely. Since everything is in pdf land, you will need to print out the pages you want, scan them and then post them. Barb is encouraging us to do just that. She WANTS this information out on the net, and this is the ideal forum to do it. Here's where the power of this forum comes in. Since there are so many of us, we can share the load. There are 13 different case files on the CD. Why not sign up to research and document a particular case? Then a thread could be started for each case, complete with scans and archived in the best of section. It would be nice to have 5 or 10 folks on each case to be sure nothing important is missed. Are we really grateful for all the work others did breaking the UN story? Here's our chance to make a contribution. These are lengthy files. We need people to comb through them and point us to the details of special interest, and index them.
As for Barb's book, you should properly seek her permission before reproducing any significant portion, although I'm sure brief quotes are OK.
Question.... I know Barbara had some plan for getting this out in media. Any progress or news on that front?
Barb is discreetly keeping this matter quiet for now. All I can say is, there is a good chance Christmas is coming early this year boys and girls! Watch this space.
Yours for Truth, Justice and the American Way.
ive read barbaras intro to the pedophile records and thought it might be useful to have a record here on the forum of the most damning and verifiable facts regarding the pedophilia situation.
sort of a summary.
that way we can all have a source to go to and be able to quickly summarize whats criminal about the way the society has used its authority in this matter.
Open Mind, thanks for your comments and concerns.
Item 1: Barbara has an entire section in her book, entitled, "The Three Year Rule". It runs from pages 33 to 38 and makes the following citations, with quotations:
Organization Book, version 1972, page 170, paragraph 2 (if a man had committed a "serious wrong" but two or three years had passed and he seemed to have Jehovah’s blessing and the esteem of the congregation, he could remain in his position, or be appointed.)
October 72 KM Question Box (OR book reiterated and clarified)
November 1991 KM School (72 KM policy reiterated)
1995 WT outline for CO meeting with BOE
Letter from Red Bluff North Congregation, CA to Service Dept, where this policy is referred to
1994 Letter from D.O. Donald Amy to Service Dept. which suggests changing this "three year rule" policy regarding a case of pedophilia (which remained unchanged at least until 2000)
Major lawsuits were filed in 2003. At the 2005 KM School the policy officially changed.
You need Barb's CD.
Item 2: This was an easy one.
Item 3: I have read of many cases where the victim goes to the authorities and is then DF’d. See Silent Lambs, where there is much evidence of this practice, not just in the U.S., but several other countries. All participants in the Dateline program were summarily DF’d a week before the broadcast. You’re correct, there may be no "policy" in writing, but is it just coincidence that so many cases have been handled this way? In a number of different countries? Or is it "unwritten" policy? How many cases are you aware of, pre-2003 when the big lawsuits began, where someone went to the authorities and were NOT disfellowshipped? On Silentlambs alone there are probably more than 100 documented cases with names, dates and locations of people who WERE.
It's kind of like back in 1976 when the elders didn't like it that I objected to them forcing me to administer the magazine dept contrary to the Society's instructions. I didn't buck them. Just asked for another assignment. Result? I was deleted. Little did I know then that there was an unwritten rule that I had to wait 5 years before I could be recommended again. Even elders in the congregation I later moved to told me this was the case. Sure enough, 5 years later (in another congregation) I was re-appointed. So I guess what I'm saying is, any of us who have been elders for any significant period of time, know, especially in the 70's and 80's, there were certain unwritten rules that were followed so steadfastly, that in my mind they amounted to "policy". These were promulgated from nowhere else but Brooklyn. But you make a good point. Perhaps this point should be dropped. Other thoughts?
Item 4: I think this was a matter of semantics, as someone else commented. But I think you are right, it should be re-worded. Perhaps it could read, "Each congregation customarily pays an annual premium to the Society for the Kingdom Hall Assistance Arrangement, based upon a formula adopted by the Society of $4.50 per publisher." Barbara’s information shows that settlements to victims of abuse ARE being paid from this fund. I too remember these resolutions every year. I never remember a discussion. It was announced, hands were raised and the check was cut.
There is no provision for excerpting copies from Barbara’s CD, and I can’t take the time to re-type everything she has published, nor do I have the right. For those who want to see for themselves, I suggest they order the CD. Then those of us who are researching what is there can make reference to the page numbers.
Other ideas?
Lenny
ive read barbaras intro to the pedophile records and thought it might be useful to have a record here on the forum of the most damning and verifiable facts regarding the pedophilia situation.
sort of a summary.
that way we can all have a source to go to and be able to quickly summarize whats criminal about the way the society has used its authority in this matter.
Hmmmmm. . . .more interest.
Thanks so much for all who have commented and especially for those who took the time to clarify or raise questions. I agree that the last thing we want to do is speak without sound basis on such a serious matter. A few have raised questions regarding the three year rule. I know I saw mention of this at least a few times in the material and it was a big deal. For now, the only reference I can think of is the letter from the D.O. in California in 1994, where he petitioned the Society to change it. All those with the CD, it's time to search! I'm out of town from Thursday until next Sunday, so if you don't see any posts by me, be sure I will return. We'll be in New Orleans and are looking forward to breakfast with bigdreaux on Sunday. Anyone want to join us?
Lenny
ive read barbaras intro to the pedophile records and thought it might be useful to have a record here on the forum of the most damning and verifiable facts regarding the pedophilia situation.
sort of a summary.
that way we can all have a source to go to and be able to quickly summarize whats criminal about the way the society has used its authority in this matter.
Don't know what the arrangement is in the UK. But that has been the arrangement here in the US for many years. Per Barbara, court documents indicate that the argument was made that since the Society collected premiums in California in order to provide insurance coverage for congregations there, they were de facto, in the insurance business in California. This apparently made it more difficult to claim confidentiality with regard to some documents the court was seeking. Who would like to find the specific locations that support these points in the documents Barbara uncovered? It would be nice to have scans of these to accompany this thread.
