Posts by sir82

43

What JW's are saying regarding the downsizing at Bethel

by jimbob in

jw
friends

i haven't posted anything for a while on jwd due to being busy with work and school, but this email was to much of a crack up not to post.

this was sent to my wife today from her old jw friend.

she forwarded it to me and i'm posting it with her permission.

sir82

WELL, THERE'S MORE. THEY HAVE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED THAT THEY ARE REDUCING THE STAFF AT BETHEL. SOME WILL BE SENT OUT AS SPECIAL PIONEERS, SOME CIRCUIT AND DISTRICT OVERSEERS, SOME AS PIONEERS...EVEN THE ELDERLY WILL BE ASSIGNED TO DO PHONE TERRITORY.

Translation, for those not used to reading between the lines...

Total Bethel layoffs: 1500

"Some will be sent out as Special Pioneers" - Maybe 10 or 12 (Special pioneers have been virtually phased out in the US, there have been only a few hundred in all the US for the past several decades...do you really think there will be a huge jump?)

"Some Circuit and District Overseers" - Maybe 10 or 12, there may be some older COs & DOs who might like to retire, but there are only 600 or so CO positions in the US, there can't be that many openings

"Some as pioneers" - "We expect the 1480 who are not Special Pioneers or COs to go back to their home congregations and pioneer"

Of course, based on experience, what will more likely happen is that about 400 or so will be gung-ho pioneer types, and the other 1000 will quickly become disillusioned. What's the saying? "Bethel makes the best apostates"

"The elderly will be assigned phone territory" - WTH? "OK, Brother Totters, thanks for your 60 years of servile poverty while here, now here's a phone and a list of names we pulled from the phone book. Get dialling!"

Actually, that last phrase could be telling. "Even the elderly"? I.e., are even some Bethel old-timers getting the boot? Does anyone have any contacts who are well-placed enough to verify that?

9

New Evolution Book....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

i'm wondering why no new evolution book has come out since the last one.

i mean that was in the early 80's if i remember correctly and there's so much new information about homo erectus, neandertal and various other forms of human life before (or during if you want to get picky) modern homo sapien existence.

i think it would be really fun to see what type of arguments would be made now, obviously the original evolution book can be pretty easily debunked by current studies, i'm just curious what would be found more recently to combat the evil evolution myth.

sir82

And did it in fact, fly? Even as a dub, I remember thinking that book was lame. Did you ever hear any JW mention something to that effect?

You are speaking of JWs, of course.

For those that function at the usual level of non-thinking, the book was a "marvelous provision from Jah".

For the few capable of rational thought, they either keep quiet or leave when they can't take it any more. So, only positive comments about this book (as with every single other piece of literature) are heard.

Personally, I found it fairly convincing when it was first released, but have read enough books on cosmology since then to realize its shallowness.

9

New Evolution Book....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

i'm wondering why no new evolution book has come out since the last one.

i mean that was in the early 80's if i remember correctly and there's so much new information about homo erectus, neandertal and various other forms of human life before (or during if you want to get picky) modern homo sapien existence.

i think it would be really fun to see what type of arguments would be made now, obviously the original evolution book can be pretty easily debunked by current studies, i'm just curious what would be found more recently to combat the evil evolution myth.

sir82

There was the "Is There a Creator Who Cares" book which came out sometime in the late 90's. It presents a warmed-over rehash of various creationist / intelligent design arguments, all of which pretty much boil down to " [whatever it is we are discussing] is so complex, it must have had a designer."

The book studiously steers clear of pretty much anything related directly to evolution.

I think that (1) the Society was thoroughly embarrassed by the scores of errors and and quotations out of context in the "Life, How Did It Get Here, By Evolution or Creation" book, and (2) somebody somewhere in the Writing Department realizes that the idea of special creation, at least as defined by the WTS, is impossible to defend in any rational manner.

So, in keeping with the trend of the last decade or 2, they just released a book with vague nebulous reasonings, and hoped it flew.

I doubt we will ever see again any attempt at seriously refuting evolution, or any other notion that requires reasoning above a 5th grade level.

23

Dub women and make up

by MsMcDucket in

jw
friends

when i became a witness, the sisters were on me about not wearing make-up.

it seemed like every sister in the hall wore make-up.

i, coming from a "holiness" background, didn't feel comfortable in make-up; so, i usually didn't wear any.

sir82

If you will permit a comment from the male perspective....

It strikes me that the JWs often manifest a very competitive streak. If you are very good-looking, and can get away without much make-up, and Sister Bad-Complexion needs a half-inch thick layer to just look presentable, that could cause resentment.

If Sister Look-At-Me shows up with a Gucci bag, well, maybe I should buy that Fendi I saw last week.

Of course it is not just sisters, brothers compete with their material goods, and even with assignments. "Well, guess who's head of the rooming department at the District Convention this year!"

Of course not everyone is like this. But for those who come into the organization, and have this type of personality to begin with, the situation is greatly exacerbated by the particular JW culture, related to "theocratic activities". How much time did you put in last month? How many magazines did you place this morning? My son is a pioneer, and is going to Gilead--what are your children doing? I had the CO over for lunch, it was such a wonderful privilege, blah blah blah...It is a short step from competitiveness in "theocratic" endeavors to competitiveness in other areas.

11

You Will Be Reassigned

by truthsetsonefree in

jw
friends

as has been commented on this board already, last monday the talk "doing jehovah's will" was given at watchtower study.

ted jaracz and guy pierce handled it.

the gist of it was that it is jehovah's will for major changes to take place at

sir82

I think this may have been touched on in previous threads on this topic...

I wonder who exactly will be "reassigned"? I can't shake the thought that fear of large medical liability is at least part of this shake-up. Cetainly, that is a large part of "worldly" companies down-sizing of persons. So, I would expect a large number of the re-assignees would be middle-aged to older (say 40's to 60's) who represent the biggest ongoing risk.

The Society does tend to reward long service, so those in their mid-60's & up, who likely have 30+ years in the big house, are relatively safe. And the newbies in their 20's & 30's who can do the grunt work, and don't cost so much in "benefits", would probably stick around.

But if you are 40-65, and have 20 or fewer years there, or don't have important connections, I'd start making those phone calls to Brother OwnMyOwnBusiness back in the home congregation, to see if he has any openings for floor buffers or shipping & handling clerks.

74

Bethel Downsizing Again!

by zack in

jw
friends

i do not know if any of you have heard.

no one in my congo.

other than one other elder on the body has heard:.

sir82

More simplification! Praise Jah!

Eventually, the truth will be so simple, we won't even need monthly Awakes or semi-monthly Watchtowers.

We'll just get one big "Jehovah Magazine" every January. It will consist of 16 pages, 14 of them big colorful pictures of lions playing with lambs.

The 2 pages of text will be along the lines of "Jehovah is good. The world is bad. The internet is worse. Go to the meetings."

The Watchtower study will consist of analyzing one sentence from each page for a full hour.

I can hardly wait!

21

Bible verses or theological questions which "breaks" JW

by Shazard in

i am newbie here and i am not ex-jw.

christ managed to protect me, but my brother fell into this cult.

now coz of this i am confessional lutheran.

sir82

I agree with the above posters, thee is no "silver bullet".

But I've always been kind of partal to this line of reasoning...

Regarding the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" doctrine, you ask, "So, Jehovah has always had an organization here on earth right? There has always been a 'Faithful & Discreet slave Class here on the earth since Jesus' death in 33CE?"

To which a faithful JW should answer "Yes", as this is the offficial teaching.

To which you reply, "So, if I were living in the year 1492, and I wanted to be pleasing to God, to which organization should I have belonged? Or int he year 850? Or the year 1700?"

Or, an alterntive would be, "So, there was a Faithful & Discreet Slave Class in 1870, right? Why didn't CT Russell stick to that organization, rather than founding the Watchtower Society as a new entity?"

25

Is Blood Now 'The Tail Wagging The Dog'?

by metatron in

jw
friends

a few years ago, the organization seemed to be drifting towards reason.

the knowledge book downplayed holidays and blood.. witness kids were told they could go to college.

the new worship book - as a re-edited "united" book - removed all mention of.

sir82

I believe they seriously had/have a timetable to shed the blood doctrine. I think there have been definite signs of this happening over the last few years.

I have my own little theory about this...

Back in October 2001, there was a "special meeting" called, and certain long-standing JWs were allowed to attend. The meeting was held in the Pontiac Silverdome, and most of the Bethel heavies and GB members healthy enough to travel were there.

Our old friend Maximus who used to post here indicated that the meeting would contain some sort of earth-shattering information.

As it turned out, the "special meeting" was little more than an infomercial for the special conventions held earlier that year. Virtually nothing of substance was said.

Why go to all the trouble & expense of renting out the facility, traveling, etc., for a meaningless meeting?

Here is my theory: The meeting ended up being held just about 1 month after 9/11/2001. I theorize they were going to roll out a new understanding of the blood doctrine, but then 9/11 hit, and put the "fear of God" into the Bethel hardliners. I think they used the occasion to force their viewpoint on the more liberal members, cancelled the blood doctrine revisions being planned, and hurriedly threw together a silly little program on how wonderful the conventions in Lithuania or wherever were. I think they had the impression that Jehovah had sent a "warning shot across the bow" by sending the planes into the towers so close to Brooklyn Bethel.

Lending support to this theory, 2001 was the year when the infamous "don't hand out those blood cards!" letter was received. New blood cards, printed in June 2001, had been printed and sent out, implying that autologous transfusions (storing and transfusing one's own blood) would now be permitted. Almost as soon as they were received by the congregations, another letter came saying to destroy those cards, and wait for replacement cards. The replacement cards had the more permissive language removed.

AlanF has a thread somewhere with a copy of one of those cards, which escaped destruction.

It seems to me that the increasingly hardline stance referred to Metatron in this and other posts stem from about that time frame.

I have absolutely 0 proof, nor even an inkling of any evidence for this. It is just a pet theory that certain events seem to support.

And of course, one would have to be a megalomaniac of the highest degree to think anything like that of 9/11. But take another look at the Isaiah books, the Daniel books, etc., if anyone doubts the enormous arrogance of the GB.

307

SERVICE REPORT 2005 : WATCHTOWER FEB 1ST 2006

by BluesBrother in

i have had a quick look and found no references to this, so - here goes..as in the mag we picked up on sunday.. worldwide % increase over 2004 = 1.3%.

memorial partakers 8524 (compared to 8570 in 2004).

most european and nth american lands show pretty static figs - britain 1% increase, canada 0%, germany 0%, france 1%, usa 0%... but spare a thought for the inhabitants of zambia where 1 person in 90 is a reporting witness, must be hell going down to the local market!

sir82

Listener,

I'm trying to figure out if Spanish congregations really are "more accepting & less judgmental". I think it is one of those "yes and no" answers.

Based on my experience, it seems that if something is culturally important and accepted, then the Spanish congregations have less of a problem with it. For example, they oftentimes have huge parties, with loud music and dancing that would never in a million years be accepted in most English-speaking congos.

But there is also a lot more of a "if the Watchtower says it in print, it is virtually the same as the gospel" mentality for other things. If the Watchtower says blood fraction A is acceptable, but blood fraction B is not, well, by God, then it is gospel truth that anyone who accepts fraction B is a godless heathen who deserves to have his eyeballs plucked out a Armageddon. No questions asked, no doubts, it's in print so you better believe it.

307

SERVICE REPORT 2005 : WATCHTOWER FEB 1ST 2006

by BluesBrother in

i have had a quick look and found no references to this, so - here goes..as in the mag we picked up on sunday.. worldwide % increase over 2004 = 1.3%.

memorial partakers 8524 (compared to 8570 in 2004).

most european and nth american lands show pretty static figs - britain 1% increase, canada 0%, germany 0%, france 1%, usa 0%... but spare a thought for the inhabitants of zambia where 1 person in 90 is a reporting witness, must be hell going down to the local market!

sir82

As I understand it, about four years ago policy changed to allow brothers who were known to be illegal aliens serve in those capacities.

I don't want to give away too much info about myself, but I have close ties with a few Spanish congregations here. The above is not true. I recall a Congregation Book Study I attended not so long ago, there were 4 baptized brothers in attendance, including one who had been an elder and was an ex-Bethelite in his country of origin, but a (legal) sister was reading the paragraphs. The illegals were not even allowed the "privilege" of reading paragraphs - much less serve as an MS or elder. The illegal aliens are allowed only to give talks 2-4 in the School and comment at meetings - no other "privileges" allowed.

One change did come about maybe 2 years ago - illegal aliens are now allowed to work on Quick-Build KH projects.

One of the most delicate taks that Spanish-language elders have is, when someone moves into a congregation directly from a foreign country, they have to as tactfully as possible ask about their legal status, so they know what "privileges" can be doled out.

And I agree, there are enormous pressures on the few Spanish brothers who are "qualified" to serve. There are a lot of issues that slip thru the cracks, and many of the elders I know are at or near burnout.