ok, just got off the phone with my wife and she has started a new bible study with still another new sister.
she likes this woman, unfortunately.
well my wife's original intention was to learn how to study the bible, well it seems that the sister twisted this to ask her to provide a topic she wants to know more about and then she will show my wife what the bible says about this.
Here's a beauty that always manages to twist 'em around the axle:
1) "Is it true that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other Old Testament patriarchs will be on earth, not in heaven?"
2) [After the JW answers Yes to that]: "Maybe you can explain what this verse means?" Use Matthew 8:11 -- "Many shall come from the east and west—and shall sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."
3) They have an explanation -- but it's a lousy one. Sit back and watch the fun.
Cathy
well, i just finished reading marley cole's "jehovah's witnesses - the new world society" book from 1955. i'll provide a few quotes to introduce it in case you aren't familiar with the book.
ray franz in crisis of conscience, p74, 2004 hc edition: cole wrote the book as if he were a non-witness writing an objective account.
the idea was that by having the book published by an outside publishing firm it might reach persons who normally would not take society literature.
EDIT: Vantage Press is a vanity publisher? I'm shocked! Really? I always thought they were a legit mainstream publisher. I've read quite a few of their books.
Maybe you're thinking of Vintage Press? I used to get the two mixed up. Yeah, VANTAGE is vanity, VINTAGE is a "real" publishing house.
Cathy
well, i just finished reading marley cole's "jehovah's witnesses - the new world society" book from 1955. i'll provide a few quotes to introduce it in case you aren't familiar with the book.
ray franz in crisis of conscience, p74, 2004 hc edition: cole wrote the book as if he were a non-witness writing an objective account.
the idea was that by having the book published by an outside publishing firm it might reach persons who normally would not take society literature.
I quote the entire plug to draw attention to the fact that it could be ordered through the Society (you could even order it at your KH's literature counter), something that is extremely rare for non-WT-published books (MacMillan's "Faith on the March" is the only other one I can think of, but it seems like there might have been one or two others).
I once saw an issue of either Awake! or The Watchtower which had an order blank on the back page which you could use to order Faith on the March. I wonder if there was one for Cole's book?
I have both Jehovah's Witnesses and Triumphant Kingdom, but I haven't read either one all the way through.
Cathy
thought you might like to see the new trailer they released.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtq5kgmzs8e.
having problem pasting this...
John May (and Martin Merriman) from Ireland, on their visit to the U.S. to determine the fate of Raymond FranzWhere are these guys now? Does anyone know?
Another thing I've wondered about is why R. Franz cut their story from a later edition of "Crisis of Conscience" (the chapter titled "Aftermath")? I've got the 1985 second printing (paperback) and the 4th edition (hardcover).
Cathy
never thought i would be, but now i've watched 3 versions of sense and sensibility, 2 versions of pride and prejudice, 2 of persuasion, and 2 of emma.
also saw one of mansfield park, but i didn't like it that much.
there's only one left that i haven't seen--northanger abbey.. .
I like all your comments. How do you join a Jane Austen book club?
The Jane Austen Society of North America has local chapters all across the United States, who get together for discussions, sponsor seminars, celebrate Jane Austen's Birthday in December (the 16th) with food and fun, and more. They have an Annual General Meeting in a different part of the U. S. or Canada, where they have panel discussions, a ball (lots of dancing in Jane's books!), and workshops. If you contact them they may be able to direct you to local activities.
Oh, and here's one more reason I love Jane: I read somewhere that she'd be sitting by the fire and doing needlework with the other women in her family, and would begin to laugh to herself. She'd jump up, run to the writing desk, and jot down a page or two, then go back to her sewing. I love that very human picture of an active imagination at work.
Cathy
never thought i would be, but now i've watched 3 versions of sense and sensibility, 2 versions of pride and prejudice, 2 of persuasion, and 2 of emma.
also saw one of mansfield park, but i didn't like it that much.
there's only one left that i haven't seen--northanger abbey.. .
What did you think of Colonel Brandon in S&S? I liked him OK in the 1st and 3rd versions, but couldn't stand him in the one with Kate Winslow and Emma Thompson. Also noticed that they never mentioned the 3rd sister, Margaret, in the 1st film. She was so cute in the other two.
I'm not very impartial here. I love Alan Rickman, so I was willing to overlook what the screenwriters did with his character. He is SO sexy ...
Yes, I am very steeped in the novels, having read them all over (plus the unfinished works, juvenilia, and parts of J. A.'s letters) at least 10 times each by now. As a result I LOATHE the Keira Knightley version of P & P with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. I could not even finish watching it (thankfully on DVD and not in a theatre) because it was so squirm-inducing.
In one of the issues of Persuasions, the annual journal of the Jane Austen Society of North America (JASNA), there was a discussion of the movies that had been made up till that point. The consensus was that modern filmmakers just don't get her. She was reacting against the rising tide of Romanticism, using a bemused tone when talking about people who couldn't think clearly because they couldn't keep a rein on their emotions. Marianne is the best example of this. The heroine of Sense and Sensibility is Elinor, whose love is sacrificial and whose thought is clear despite her pain, but who loves just as deeply as her sister, if not more.
The virtue of self-restraint enhances the romance when it occurs: " "If I loved you less, I might be able to talk about it more," says Mr. Knightley toward the end of Emma. But you're cheering when he does, just because he didn't wear his heart on his sleeve, and it means so much more when he declares his love. (The version with Mark Strong and Kate Beckinsale, BTW, is one of my absolute favorite adaptations. Didn't like the Gwyneth Paltrow version at all.)
In Love and Freindship [sic], an early story which she reworked into Sense and Sensibility, Jane plays the situation between the sisters for more laughs. She'd have had a lot of fun satirizing modern romance novels. Some things don't change.
But the best example the article gave on the problem of modern directors handling Austen's work is Willoughby in S & S. The movie has him on a hill, astride his horse, watching Marianne's marriage from a distance, very much the Romantic antihero. You have a sense that he has thrown away his last chance at happiness by marrying for money instead of love. But Jane, the ever-practical and astute observer of real human beings, wrote of him:
Willoughby could not hear of her marriage without a pang; and his punishment was soon afterwards complete in the voluntary forgiveness of Mrs. Smith, who, by stating his marriage with a woman of character, as the source of her clemency, gave him reason for believing, that had be behaved with honour towards Marianne, he might at once have been happy and rich. That his repentance of misconduct, which thus brought it own punishment, was sincere, need not be doubted; nor that he long thought of Colonel Brandon with envy, and of Marianne with regret. But that he was for ever inconsolable -- that he fled from society, or contracted an habitual gloom of temper, or died of a broken heart, must not be depended on -- for he did neither. He lived to exert, and frequently to enjoy himself. His wife was not always out of humour, nor his home always uncomfortable! and in his breed of horses and dogs, and in sporting of every kind, he found no inconsiderable degree of domestic felicity.
That's the main problem directors have in trying to bring Mansfield Park to the screen. They would have to give up trying to make a commercial success and accept Fanny for who she is, not what they think she ought to be.
Cathy
never thought i would be, but now i've watched 3 versions of sense and sensibility, 2 versions of pride and prejudice, 2 of persuasion, and 2 of emma.
also saw one of mansfield park, but i didn't like it that much.
there's only one left that i haven't seen--northanger abbey.. .
Why was the older brother not disinherited when he married Lucy? Because she was a scheming, selfish, conniving little .. well, you know:
The whole of Lucy's behaviour in the affair, and the prosperity which crowned it, therefore, may be held forth as a most encouraging instance of what an earnest, an unceasing attention to self-interest, however its progress may be apparently obstructed, will do in securing every advantage of fortune, with no other sacrifice than that of time and conscience. When Robert first sought her acquaintance, and privately visited her in Bartlett's Buildings, it was only with the view imputed to him by his brother. He merely meant to persuade her to give up the engagement; and as there could be nothing to overcome but the affection of both, he naturally expected that one or two interviews would settle the matter. In that point, however, and that only, he erred;--for though Lucy soon gave him hopes that his eloquence would convince her in TIME, another visit, another conversation, was always wanted to produce this conviction. Some doubts always lingered in her mind when they parted, which could only be removed by another half hour's discourse with himself. His attendance was by this means secured, and the rest followed in course. Instead of talking of Edward, they came gradually to talk only of Robert,--a subject on which he had always more to say than on any other, and in which she soon betrayed an interest even equal to his own; and in short, it became speedily evident to both, that he had entirely supplanted his brother. He was proud of his conquest, proud of tricking Edward, and very proud of marrying privately without his mother's consent. What immediately followed is known. They passed some months in great happiness at Dawlish; for she had many relations and old acquaintances to cut--and he drew several plans for magnificent cottages;-- and from thence returning to town, procured the forgiveness of Mrs. Ferrars, by the simple expedient of asking it, which, at Lucy's instigation, was adopted. The forgiveness, at first, indeed, as was reasonable, comprehended only Robert; and Lucy, who had owed his mother no duty and therefore could have transgressed none, still remained some weeks longer unpardoned. But perseverance in humility of conduct and messages, in self-condemnation for Robert's offence, and gratitude for the unkindness she was treated with, procured her in time the haughty notice which overcame her by its graciousness, and led soon afterwards, by rapid degrees, to the highest state of affection and influence. Lucy became as necessary to Mrs. Ferrars, as either Robert or Fanny; and while Edward was never cordially forgiven for having once intended to marry her, and Elinor, though superior to her in fortune and birth, was spoken of as an intruder, SHE was in every thing considered, and always openly acknowledged, to be a favourite child. They settled in town, received very liberal assistance from Mrs. Ferrars, were on the best terms imaginable with the Dashwoods; and setting aside the jealousies and ill-will continually subsisting between Fanny and Lucy, in which their husbands of course took a part, as well as the frequent domestic disagreements between Robert and Lucy themselves, nothing could exceed the harmony in which they all lived together.
Maybe Edward and Robert's mother just recognized a kindred soul.
Cathy
never thought i would be, but now i've watched 3 versions of sense and sensibility, 2 versions of pride and prejudice, 2 of persuasion, and 2 of emma.
also saw one of mansfield park, but i didn't like it that much.
there's only one left that i haven't seen--northanger abbey.. .
Bonnie_Clyde observes:
My son feels the same way about her novels. He pointed out that nobody seems to have a job or knows what physical work is. He described them as the idle rich who sit around gossiping. Their idea of being poor was only having two servants.
Ah, but it all depends on what you mean by "work". The characters in Jane Austen's books are mostly (with notable exceptions) members of the middle class whose income comes from farming. While Mr. Bennett isn't tilling the soil himself, he's managing the farm, which is just as much of a job as sitting in an office and telling other employees what they need to do. Do it well, and there are profits to spread around. Do it badly ... well, you WANT to be good at it, if you like to eat.
It's ironic he should make the observation, because several of the characters come in for scorn from pretentious upper-middle types because they have relatives "in trade" (i. e., they "work" for a living). Elizabeth Bennett's uncle, the lawyer who lives in Cheapside, is laughed at by Bingley's sisters. Her Aunt Phillips is the wife of a tradesman as well. Fanny's brother and Anne Elliott's Captain Wentworth are in the Royal Navy -- tell me THAT'S not work! Not to mention the getting-shot-at part.
As for servants, tell him that he has some. We just call them the washer, dryer, and microwave. A household of more than two people needed help with all the chores that today only take a few minutes because of modern appliances. As he noted, even the poor employed servants. It was a necessity, not a luxury. Of course, one could debate how many servants a household needed before it became ridiculous.
Hilary_step writes:
Read her books. I watched the movies, and had I seen only those I would agree that they are rather shallow, but her writing is just superb and needs to be experienced. There are dimensions and depths that transcend her contemporary age and that were entirely lost in the films of her books.
Hear, hear. The movies range from wonderful (the Colin Firth P & P) to the abysmal (Sorry, but I despised the Keira Knightley version of P & P: Darcy's shirt hanging open! Donald Sutherland as MR. BENNETT?! I ask you!).
But J. A.'s writing always shines:
Silly things do cease to be silly if they are done by sensible people in an impudent way. Jane Austen, Emma
For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn? Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice, 1811
We met Dr. Hall in such deep mourning that either his mother, his wife, or himself must be dead. Jane Austen (Letters)
In all the important preparations of the mind she was complete: being prepared for matrimony by an hatred of home, restraint, and tranquillity; by the misery of disappointed affection, and contempt of the man she was to marry. Jane Austen (1775 - 1817), Mansfield Park
Cathy
never thought i would be, but now i've watched 3 versions of sense and sensibility, 2 versions of pride and prejudice, 2 of persuasion, and 2 of emma.
also saw one of mansfield park, but i didn't like it that much.
there's only one left that i haven't seen--northanger abbey.. .
Ooo! Ooo! Me! Me!
It is a truth universally acknowledged that I belong to JASNA. That is, I belong whenever I remember to send in my dues.
My favorites are Persuasion, Emma, and P&P. I try to read all of the novels at least once a year, usually in the winter. Some of the film adaptations are great and some aren't. I strongly recommend reading the books.
Cathy
