Just thinking about it but shouldn't Almighty God know who is deserving of death and who is not? Why push obedient humans towards death? Very disturbing, at least in my mind. Thats like asking your child to PROVE he/she loves you by having the kill themselves or put themselves in harms way. Wouldn't deeds, everyday actions and speech be enough?
Posts by sinis
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29The Great Crowd
by buffalosrfree inwas talking with wife a day or so ago and she asked me a question on the w.t.
for sunday, it had to do with the annointed and malachi 3:17 being applicable in a modern day fulfillment and also for the great crowd, the question went something liek this "in principal, how is the great crowd part of the prophecy of malachi 3:17?
well when opportunity knocks you had better open the door, so i says well turn here to rev 7:14 she of course had to read it too, so i told her there is no great crowd, has the great tribulation happened?
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29
The Great Crowd
by buffalosrfree inwas talking with wife a day or so ago and she asked me a question on the w.t.
for sunday, it had to do with the annointed and malachi 3:17 being applicable in a modern day fulfillment and also for the great crowd, the question went something liek this "in principal, how is the great crowd part of the prophecy of malachi 3:17?
well when opportunity knocks you had better open the door, so i says well turn here to rev 7:14 she of course had to read it too, so i told her there is no great crowd, has the great tribulation happened?
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sinis
Very interesting! Thanks. So does the vision John sees of the Great Crowd come after all of this? So is he "seeing" those who died? IMHO, the whole scenario of Revelation (at least how you presented it - which is actually VERY interesting) seems very backasswards. Why would God allow everyone who wants to follow him die only to kill those remaining off? I don't think having to die for something really accomplishes anything. I mean, given the current world, if someone offered me something a thousand times better I would take the offer and never look back. If they told me I had to obey them I would gladly do it considering that this person was almighty god and I had experienced the crappy way man and the angels (satan) have done things.
Almost sounds like evicting the occupants of a home because of roach infestation, burning the house down, rebuilding a new house and letting the people live there again. Why not just gas the roaches? I'll have to do more reading on this. I appreciate the different insight from what the society offers.
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29
The Great Crowd
by buffalosrfree inwas talking with wife a day or so ago and she asked me a question on the w.t.
for sunday, it had to do with the annointed and malachi 3:17 being applicable in a modern day fulfillment and also for the great crowd, the question went something liek this "in principal, how is the great crowd part of the prophecy of malachi 3:17?
well when opportunity knocks you had better open the door, so i says well turn here to rev 7:14 she of course had to read it too, so i told her there is no great crowd, has the great tribulation happened?
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sinis
Thanks. However, it does not make sense to keep the wicked on earth and those of the great crowd go to heaven. I consider myself to be a decent person but I DO NOT WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN. I have no interest. I would rather enjoy life on earth (under better conditions of course). In the interesting painting you portray earth in of itself becomes "hell". At the moment I just don't buy it - I guess (if it comes in my life) we will just have to wait and see...
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The Great Crowd
by buffalosrfree inwas talking with wife a day or so ago and she asked me a question on the w.t.
for sunday, it had to do with the annointed and malachi 3:17 being applicable in a modern day fulfillment and also for the great crowd, the question went something liek this "in principal, how is the great crowd part of the prophecy of malachi 3:17?
well when opportunity knocks you had better open the door, so i says well turn here to rev 7:14 she of course had to read it too, so i told her there is no great crowd, has the great tribulation happened?
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sinis
VS 15 says they are in view of his throne which could imply that they are on Earth looking towards his throne. During the reign of Isreal Jehovah "inhabited" the temple by means of a smoke and fire. Who's to say in the future that his "presence" will not be on earth with man? Sort of reminds me of a builder who builds a primary house and a guest house (where he lives) and rents out the primary house to the tenants. The tenants destroy the house and have little respect. What does the builder do? He takes those family members who are good and tells them to come live with him. Does that make any sense to anyone? Doesn't to me. In my opinion it would be better to get rid of the bad tenants and allow the good ones to stay. I'm not down with that whol going to heaven thing.
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A stranger (JW) called me
by Rayvin ini got a message on my machine from some lady.
she says "hi.. this is ' ' i was just calling to see how you are doing.
i go to ' local congo'.
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sinis
The BEST $5.00 I have ever spent per month is Call Blocking. I highly suggest you call your phone company regarding it. Basically you can BLOCK anyones phone number. They will get a pre-recorded message saying the party you are calling does not wish to be contacted. I have successfully reduced my calls to those I know or want to call me.
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JWs and Lawsuits
by Jeannine inanother jw thing that boggles my mind...... my mother-in-law, a super-jw, was crossing the street when she was hit by a car.
she was fortunate enough to sustain very minor injury (bruises and maybe a minor sprain or two).
i would describe the accident as very minor.
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sinis
You may want to remind you MIL that the ONLY way she will see the big $$$ is if she "lies" about here injuries. Depending on the insurance company they may take her the distance and actually go to trial. Will she be willing to sit on the stand and say she worse off today than before the accident? May want to "lovingly" remind her that Jehovah sees all :wink:
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There must be an "organization"
by sinis ini have not, nor will go back to "meetings" after finding out how i was spiritually mislead through the years.i have actually found more comfort in doing my own studying.
my wife still goes occassionaly and her sister and brother-in-law just started going back.
so we went over there house the other night and we got into a conversation in which he said they went to the meeting today (sunday).
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sinis
I have not, nor will go back to "meetings" after finding out how I was spiritually mislead through the years.I have actually found more comfort in doing my own studying. My wife still goes occassionaly and her sister and brother-in-law just started going back. So we went over there house the other night and we got into a conversation in which he said they went to the meeting today (Sunday). I bascially told him I will never go back and that I do not believe in "organized" religion. He went on to say that the brothers talked with him on Sunday and he had brought this up to them (as he was having doubts himself). They told him that everything in the universe is organized. There has always been a channel from god in the past and jehovah always had an organization. They even told him that the firat century christians were organized. They also told him if you don't associate with an organization (referring to them) that you are isolating yourself which is spoken against in the bible. I tried to reason with him and told him that the ancient Jewish system and or religious practices ended with Jesus. As far as an organization it did not exist in the first century (at least not in the sense that the brothers where trying to say). They only thing jesus promised his disciples was the help of the Holy spirit. He seemed to eat up every word they told him. Made me sort of sick. I eventually changed the subject.
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JWs and Dinasours
by Jeannine ini apologize if this question has been answered on this board previously.
what is the jws position on dinasours?
according to jws, when did dinasours roam the earth ?
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sinis
From my understanding and research, a bone or other substance can fossilize with the right conditions within a years time. I have some friends who worked at a local university that submitted bones to a lab for C-14 dating. The result was that the bone was over 14,000 years old. Other samples were sent to this facilit and others. All were dated to several hundred to several thousand years. The real kicker? These bones were all from animals who were recently killed. Nothing was done to the bone in a chemical way to influence the results. So, although C-14 has its place, it is evident that there are some major flaws.
As a side note, I have been reading many of the "other" books of the Bible. I find this verse VERY interesting:
Enoch Book 2[Chapter 1]
1_1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.
1_2 And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another:
1_3 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'
1_4 And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'
1_5 And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'
1_6 Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
1_7 And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
1_8 And these are the names of their leaders:
1_9 Samlazaz, their leader,Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.
[Chapter 2]
2_1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one,
2_2 And they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them,
2_3 And they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.
2_4 And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells:
2_5 Who consumed all the acquisitions of men.
2_6 And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind.
2_7 And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, 2_8 And to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood.
2_9 Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.Book of Jubilees [Chapter 5]
1 and they bare unto them sons and they were Giants.
2 And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks on the earth -all of them corrupted their ways and their orders, and they began to devour each other, and lawlessness increased on the earth and every imagination of the thoughts of all men (was) thus evil continually.
3 And God looked upon the earth, and behold it was corrupt, and all flesh had corrupted its orders, and all that were upon the earth had wrought all manner of evil before His eyes.The Book of Jasher [Chapter 4:18] says," And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.
Makes you wonder if the Fallen Angels had a hand in trying to "create" their own creatures (both man - Nephilim and animal) as a way telling Jehovah that they could be gods as well. (Moses and Aaron story - turning a rod to a snake, etc.)
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44
Not DA'd, Not DF'd - but pretty much Disowned...
by Ingenuous ini just came from what will probably be the last conversation i'll ever have with my father.
earlier in the day, i'd talked to my mom and she asked what i was up to - translated "what are you doing with yourself since you aren't going to meetings or out in service?
" i told her i'd been discussing the bible with an informal group of people and reading older wts literature.
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sinis
Oh, and you may want to share:
2 Corinthians
Chapter 4- 1
- 1 Therefore, since we have this ministry through the mercy shown us, we are not discouraged.
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- Rather, we have renounced shameful, hidden things; not acting deceitfully or falsifying the word of God, but by the open declaration of the truth we commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God.
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- And even though our gospel is veiled, 2 it is veiled for those who are perishing,
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- in whose case the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they may not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
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- For we do not preach ourselves 3 but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your slaves for the sake of Jesus.
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- 4 For God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to bring to light the knowledge of the glory of God on the face of (Jesus) Christ.
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- 5 6 But we hold this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing power may be of God and not from us.
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- 7 We are afflicted in every way, but not constrained; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
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- persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed;
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- 8 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our body.
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- For we who live are constantly being given up to death for the sake of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
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- 9 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
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- 10 Since, then, we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed, therefore I spoke," we too believe and therefore speak,
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- knowing that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and place us with you in his presence.
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- Everything indeed is for you, so that the grace bestowed in abundance on more and more people may cause the thanksgiving to overflow for the glory of God.
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- 11 12 Therefore, we are not discouraged; rather, although our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
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- For this momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
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- as we look not to what is seen but to what is unseen; for what is seen is transitory, but what is unseen is eternal.
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Not DA'd, Not DF'd - but pretty much Disowned...
by Ingenuous ini just came from what will probably be the last conversation i'll ever have with my father.
earlier in the day, i'd talked to my mom and she asked what i was up to - translated "what are you doing with yourself since you aren't going to meetings or out in service?
" i told her i'd been discussing the bible with an informal group of people and reading older wts literature.
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sinis
I had a recent discussion with my mother a few weeks ago. She claimed I was an apostate also. The way I reasoned with her and basically got her to shut up was by asking her to look me in the eyes and before god himself tell me to my face that I was apostatizing against what the BIBLE says and not some man made organization. In the end she could not do it. I like to remind people that the same judgement they give to others will be given to them in the end. If you get called to a JC I would take a few small stones and before the meeting gets under way I would hand them out and tell those present, as did Jesus, that those without sin to cast the first stone... and ask where the mercy is in the whole arrangement. I would like to see the scripture that says you can't read the bible and understand it on your own. They may pull the Etheopian eunich crap but realistically his beliefs were centered around paganisim and christianity was completely new, so he needed someone to teach him the elementary things. Nothing more, nothing less.