Posts by sinis

30

Do you understand the ransom?

by Fisherman in

because i am a christian i accept the ransom with a leap of faith but undrstanding it is beyond my imagination.

i cannot justify torturing and killing the innocent, but that is only my thinking.

god must have good reasons for what he does.

sinis

I happen to beling to mainstream Christianity and I'll explain it how we believe it. It seems to make much more sense this way.
First off, Jesus is God (Lets not debate trintiy -- just makes a difference in this explination)
We are all sinners. We are imperfect and sin many times. As sinners we can not ever deserve eternal life.
God is love, but God is also just and therefore must punish sin.
There seems to be a problem and this problem is solved through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins. (Like if your child committed a horrible crime and you could take the punishment of death so that he/she could live -- you would be demonstrating an intense amount of love for that child).
The only way that Christ died for Adam's sin is that the sin we all have is due to Adam. So, Christ died for Adam's sin which we all have.....

I'm sorry but this is so far fetched. Why would god need to die for us - he's almighty, right? Also, he really didn't die, right? Unless he is gone from the universe completely, never to be present again. In your terms, it would work like this: Kidnappers take my son and demand $100,000 for his release. I give them the $100,000, get my son back, and then print $100,000 on my money machine at home. So basically I did not lose anything.

Did you know that up until a couple of hundred years ago the official church teaching was that god tricked satan. Originally satan was supposed to get jesus' soul as payment. Satan agreed to the terms put god pulled a fast one and resurrected his son leaving Satan to hold an empty bag. Funny how christanity has changed their doctrine since.

30

Do you understand the ransom?

by Fisherman in

because i am a christian i accept the ransom with a leap of faith but undrstanding it is beyond my imagination.

i cannot justify torturing and killing the innocent, but that is only my thinking.

god must have good reasons for what he does.

sinis

The Bible is simple, love God and Christ, love your neighbor as yourself, trust in the blood of Jesus and do your best that you can. God already knows as His children on earth, we had the entire deck of cards stacked against us, there never was a chance to win on our own, that is why He did what He did. It is love beyond what anyone of us would be willing or capable of doing. That is why it is a free gift and He is God.

And what, its not easier to say you are forgiven? The gospels focus on words, not deeds. Didn't jesus show numerous times that it was easier to forgive someone over doing extreme rituals? Did not jesus overturn the money changers in the temple yelling out that his father wanted mercy not sacrifice? So why the conflict? So god knew from the beginning that we didn't have a chance in hell? Gee, thats a god I want to follow. Sounds alot like predestination. Jesus spilled blood does what?! Nothing, its a pipe dream made up by Paul, borrowed from the Jewish and Pagan religions of the time.

30

Do you understand the ransom?

by Fisherman in

because i am a christian i accept the ransom with a leap of faith but undrstanding it is beyond my imagination.

i cannot justify torturing and killing the innocent, but that is only my thinking.

god must have good reasons for what he does.

sinis

Funny how the ransom is only mentioned in gross detail through the Pauline epistles. The ransom make absolutely no sense. Neither does the Universal Soverignty issue which spawned the need for a ransom.

So I'm almighty god. A son or lessor god challenges me, and says he can rule better than I. I say ok, we will play a game. If you win I will give you everything and go off, banished in shame, leaving the human race under your control. Yet at the same time I tell you that I have a seed that will destroy you and you will ultimately lose. You cannot win. So here we are back to square one. Who wins? Who loses? We all lose, including Satan!

To get a grasp of how far fetched that whole idea is, lets put it in modern terms. I dislike how Pres Bush runs the country. So I go to the White House and tell him I can rule better than he. He says, lets play the game. If I win he will turn the country over to me, a lessor, a nobody. He then tells me he will use his office power to make sure that I lose. This is after the stakes have been laid out. I win he leaves, I lose I go to jail forever and eventually will be executed. I still agree to the terms, silly me!

If this does not change your mind, how about this? Why would an ominiscent god even stup down to a lessor god and play the game? Why would he hold ALL men and their descendants accountable for something one man did?! How on earth could one man buy all this back? Thats like getting mad at your son and telling him to appease my wrath to go sacrifice the family dog outback, only then will I be appeased.

It is so ridicules to even fathom such a gross concept.

So Jesus dies, even if he was the ransom, where are the benefits? We still die. There is no kingdom on earth, etc.

What is even funnier is how the christian ransom doctrine is extremely close and related in many parts to pagan concepts of redemption. gee you think that have been where Paul pulled this stuff out of? Maybe along with pulling stuff out his ass? He was a freakin' Sadducee, and expounded on Jewish Sadducee concepts.

32

Demonic expereiences

by Tyrone van leyen in

all bs and religion aside we've all heard the demon stories of the witnesses but has anyone actually had an personal experience such that you can't explain with your rational mind that shocked you and may lend credence to the possibility of something paranormal.

not something hyped, or emotional,but something your gut told you is just couldn't happen and did?

sinis

What I find funny is how Roman historians comment on Chrisiantity. They mention how christains use the terms demons and angels, while the "pagans" refer to the same entities as gods. Personally I do not believe in demons.

32

Demonic expereiences

by Tyrone van leyen in

all bs and religion aside we've all heard the demon stories of the witnesses but has anyone actually had an personal experience such that you can't explain with your rational mind that shocked you and may lend credence to the possibility of something paranormal.

not something hyped, or emotional,but something your gut told you is just couldn't happen and did?

sinis

Well, I'm one for proof myself. I have tried on numerous occasions to contact my dead relatives, all to no avail. I do have to comment though that my cats will, in unison look at something in ths house (that seems to be invisible) and you can watch them follow it with their eyes. This usually happens when I have tried to contact my relatives as mentioned above. I have no idea what they are seeing, as I can't see anything. I find it facinating, but as I have mentioned I do not seem to be getting any tangible proof.

10

What does God really require from us?

by MinisterAmos in

what is required from us?

the two most important things are to love god and to love your neighbor, following jesus' example.. since we already know that all god requires from us is love (and the respect that accompanies it of course) why do jws feel they are "chosen" when they espouse hate?.

interesting that i have been asked to "push" the love part in field service, and told that the rest is "too much for them to understand at first.

sinis

How do you know thats what god requires from us? Yes loving your neighbor should be first and foremost as a MORAL guide, since the world would be a lot different if everyone practiced it.

If you knew that the roots of christanity were pagan (which they are) then how valid is the Bible? What if Jerusalem had been inhabited by Muslims? Would Christanity be a Muslim-Christanity mix instead of Judeo-Christanity? Time and geography have had the most impact on how religions form as do politics.

What if god created us and then gave us free will, which means he does not get involved, no matter what. If the bible is taken out of the equation, and we know the universe is infinite, what makes us so sure that there is not another race or life form out there? So did god REALLY create US, here on earth? Or did something else occur that brought life here? I know it sounds far fetched but the idea that we are FIRST and FOREMOST in this universe and that GOD ONLY cares about us, is very hard to swallow.

12

Regrets for becoming a JW

by sinis in

well, i have been thinking lately how f@cked the jw have left me, in a sense, though i was raised in the "truth".

first off, my grandfather was df'd when i was 12, will never forget as it was the first night i gave a talk on the school.

he was df'd for chewing tabacco.

sinis

Thanks. I appreciate it. I don't get drunk as I have never been a drinker ;) but on the same token I have removed myself completely from Christanity, I consider myself a deist at this point. I don't think any thing special will happen when I die as I feel this life is it. If I'm wrong than great, I'm all for a better life/future. What I do find is that because of there silly freaking policy I suffered as did my family, unbeknownst to them. What is even MORE aggrevating is the fact that they continue to f&ck so many more over, and they blindly follow this crap.

12

Regrets for becoming a JW

by sinis in

well, i have been thinking lately how f@cked the jw have left me, in a sense, though i was raised in the "truth".

first off, my grandfather was df'd when i was 12, will never forget as it was the first night i gave a talk on the school.

he was df'd for chewing tabacco.

sinis

Well, I have been thinking lately how F@cked the JW have left me, in a sense, though I was raised in the "truth". First off, my grandfather was DF'd when I was 12, will never forget as it was the first night I gave a talk on the school. He was DF'd for chewing tabacco. I never talked to him and even rarely saw him until he died when I was 21. Then I had full scholarships to ANY school in this country, some very prestigous. My JW fruitcake step mom never let me go, even the pioneers used to tell me to throw the certificates away as that was rfrom Satan. Never played sports, never went to a prom, never went to parties, never played with the "wordly" kids of the neighborhood, never dated until I was "sure" I wanted to get married. So many lost memories and doors that I NEVER opened and were denied me. No need to plan for a retirement since this system is soooooooo close to the end (though that has changed now).

So, years later my father who used to be aan elder steps down, I quit going also. The good thing is I decied to go back to school, on my dime and a degree though I'm happy with may not have been my first choice years ago. Not only that but now I have to merge into a job market half way through life whereas as a younger man it would have been far easier, with a longer time frame to do it in.

I basically don't give a shit anymore and have looked into the occult, smoked cigars :) and done whatever the hell I feel like now which were big taboos under the JW regime. What pains me the most is the loss of my grandfather so many years ago, and the lost opportunity to really know him, as well as how he may have felt for being shunned. The loss of the future I wanted as well.

So I live for the day and future but the regrets truely haunt me. Anyone else have regrets for what the bastards did?

20

Help me understand God's will

by TheListener in

i am tired of being told that gods will is for there to be a paradise earth.

i have put the following scripture list together to .

help myself (and maybe others) in discussing what gods will is.. .

sinis

Oh, and if your still bent on using the Bible as the authority from God, then I would suggest learning about the birth of Christanity and how the Bible and modern church were established. You will see that it all has pagan roots and once again comes full circle and points to one thing - man trying to control man, nothing more, nothing less.

20

Help me understand God's will

by TheListener in

i am tired of being told that gods will is for there to be a paradise earth.

i have put the following scripture list together to .

help myself (and maybe others) in discussing what gods will is.. .

sinis

God(s) will?

First, dump the Bible. Its just a book as is the Koran or Illiad and Odessey, or even Atlantis for that matter.

Next, live life now, because this is it.

I understand that most people have to have faith in something better as that is human nature under the umbrella of religion. Cut religion out of the picture and you start to understand that the limited amount of time you are given is just that, and what you do with it makes a difference in your life and those that you mingle with. You are a cog in the universal machine that wears out in time and needs replacing.

What I find extremely fascinating is that if you cut the Bible or any other religo book out of the equation than life takes on a whole new meaning. Does life exist on other planets, extremely possible. Could we have been the offspring of a dying world (sound far fetched?)? Dying Gods? Perhaps. Civilization rises and falls with each fall putting us in the dark ages. Then the subsequent rise uses the knowledge of the previous civilizations and builds upon it, thus advancing us further. It always seems right before a certain era becomes its most advanced, putting us on the cusp of something far reaching and great, that they always take a dive into war or social decay. Sounds alot like the Matrix... or the gods playing chess...