Posts by sinis

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

I believe that with their sin, all of creation was cursed as well, and so animals came under that curse, resulting in their eventual death.

Perhaps it wasn't "sin". What if there were rival brothers, with the youngest (Jehovah) having the ear of the Pantheon of Gods, and forced his view point to end their "immortality" or pipeline to the gods. It would be akin to you building a gorgeous house and your neighbor gets jealous and persuades the city counsel to have it torn down, what are you going to do? Sin might be the explanation that the Jews give, but it may not be the "real" reason. The real reason could be as trivial as jealousy, and for that we all pay the price...

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

Death is natural. Sin is natural. More life is a gift.
That gift doesn't come from sinlessness (like JWs try to teach about Adam and Eve). It doesn't come from works (like JWs teach and the Pharisees taught). It comes from being declared righteous by faith and grace (i.e. "undeserved kindness"). (Romans 5:15-21; 6:21-23; 5:1, 2; 11:5, 6)
Respectfully,
AuldSoul

I understand what you are saying but isn't kind of funny that Pauline gospels were more than likely written 3 centuries after the fact? Why do we as a society shit can the earliest known writtings, either Sumer, Babylonian, what have you, and readily embrace questionable works, from a questionable character, and written milleniums after the fact?

Basically, why not delve into other cultures and beliefs, older in time, that offer more plausible explanations. Not some Utopian, abstract belief system?

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

As far as why do animals die.... maybe it had something to do with that naughty SNAKE in the garden (bad snake, bad... bad... bad)

Whats even more interesting... is that the serpent is the symbol for Enki, also shown as the rod of Asclepius (Greek) and associated with medicine (Asclepius's son was the Greek god Apollo, a practitioner of medicine). Funny how the "serpent" ie Satan was made out to be the bad guy (from the Jewish standpoint - after all you don't want to piss off his younger brother Jehovah), when in fact he may have tried to save man, and been the originator of men and life (health, medicine, etc.).

Sounds like a smear campaign to me...

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

Romans 6:23 uses the Greek word Thanatos.

The Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon gives the following primary definition of the Greek word that is translated “death” (thanatos): “(1) the death of the body (1a) that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which life on earth is ended” (“Thanatos:2505,” 1999).

In Genesis God told Adam the day he ate from the forbidden tree he would die - but he didn't did he? Not physically at least...

Neither does a car going a hundred miles an hour that runs out of gas - but it eventually stops (it was dead from that moment on but momentum kept it going). You can be physically alive through machines but dead once you are "unplugged". Now you have to assume that the "legend" of Adam living that long is factual. Like I said Moses wrote the oral tradition (which could have been embellished) ages later.

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

In the Sumer texts it is Enki who saves man by showing him how to make an ark. It was his brother Enlil (Jehovah) that created the flood to wipe man out.
And then of course is the question, "Who created them?" It makes my head hurt to think about it all. Do we believe Sumerian writings or the writings of Moses?

Personally, I believe the Sumer texts over the Jewish texts. Abram lived in the city of Ur a Sumer provence/city and took with him different beliefs. Moses wrote through the oral tradition what had been passed down through the ages. Now if Abram took the "asshole" (Jehovah) god with him as his deity, you can see where things would change to Jehovahs favor. Moses simply wrote what had been passed down.

The Sumer texts and "legends/myths" are in STONE, not passed down but recorded far before Moses put thought to paper. The Sumer texts indicate the highest "God" was An (also referred to as Uranus in other cultures) who was the father of Enki and Enlil and who were in charge of man (Enlil created earth and the garden, while his brother Enki created man). In fact the texts show that Enki told his brother not to destroy man through a flood and that he would curb the lifespan of man, as well as introducing mortality and birthing issues (stillborns etc.). When this didn't work Enki helped Noah/Gilgamesh build an ark to save himself and the creatures of the world.

So, would you rather believe the originators of a belief set in stone or an oral tradition handed down for centuries before being put to ink, knowing that the cultures split and followed different deities?

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

I thought that man was given the gift of life and that animals weren't given this same gift so the animals lived and died but humans were made to live forever as long as they did not eat of the fruit causing death.

Yet how do you know that what you are reading in the Bible is accurate? In the Sumer texts it is Enki who saves man by showing him how to make an ark. It was his brother Enlil (Jehovah) that created the flood to wipe man out. In later tradition it was altered to show that Jehovah was the savior. So if the warped sense of Jewish history favors the "asshole" god then how do you know they are accurate?

The "fruit" is nothing more that knowledge. Enki, Prometheus, Watchers (Book of Enoch), Satan, are depicted as liberating man, but were beat down by other, jealous "gods or god".

If the "gods" can create the world and man, don't you think that they could also manage the population of both man and animal, not through death but breeding? Who is to say that death was never present until Jehovah got a hardon and decided to wipe out what his brother had made? After all Jehovah is the "Jealous" god...

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

Spiritual death (ie permanent seperation fromGod) is the result of sin, not physical death.

Yet that is not what the bible says.

64

If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull in

my first week of posts here were very serious and all the wonderful, encouraging replies helped me very much.. so now i want to ask something semi-frivolous.

(actually it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me about "the truth").

why do animals die?.

sinis

I suggest you read up on the Sumer "myths" of Enki and Enlil. Enki made animals and man and has been equated to Satan. Enlil (made the earth and "Eden") dispised man and tried to exterminate him because they were too numerous and noisy - he has been equated to Jehovah. Yet Abrams, father Tarah worshiped Enki as had been the tradition of his forefathers, but when Abram reached his age to choose a god he chose Enlil or Jehovah. Hmmm, why would the jews pick a god who hated man? Enki in affect is the savor but in Christainty has equated him to Satan, yet the two are brothers. A rift came about when one brother was elevated to a higher position from their father An, which also coorelates to the Jewish texts of El Elyon. Which interestingly coincides with Greek,Roman, etc. mythology of Zeus/Jupiter/Uranus, etc.

To answer your question I believe that death was not always here, at least not from the outset, which is alluded to in Jewish and other ancient texts. It was when the "Gods" became angry that life spans were reduced as is seen with the Sumer legends of Enki and Enlil, and the Pantheon counsel that oversaw man. Energy does not become nothingness, assuming we all have souls, who is to say that the energy does not become of a higher order? Now I don't believe in "Heaven" or "Pardise", but what of other dimensions? Dimensions where everything coexists without the decaying prison known as the body...

The reason I suggest Sumer "myths" is that they are the oldest known culture on the planet - hmmm maybe there's more to believe there than a religion compiled some 6000 years plus after the fact. Also knowing that Abram -Abraham lived in Ur a Sumer city. So why is the Jewish version correct when it obviously is a spin off from Abram of Sumer texts which appear to be the actual originators? In fact the "tower of babel" in the Jewish language means "confusion" perhaps a parady? When the actual Sumer name means "Gates of the Gods". Hmmm why would the Jews make fun of an incident that appearently happened at that city? In Sumer legend Nimrod boasted of being an offspring of the gods -a (like Hercules, or other demigods) demigod and was smiten because of something he was trying to accomplish. Were the Jews poking fun at history because they entertained a rivel god? Was the building that Nimrod was building REALLY the reason for the "confusion" when he and his people could have went to a mountain in the area and been closer to the heavens than any man made zigguret? Appearently Nimrod was building over the legendary city of which Enki had once inhabited.

I find it interesting on how it becomes more convaluted the more you dig. The Bible is just one version (or word of mouth) of deeper occurances that happened in that local.

Ever wonder why the Book of Enoch, Sumer texts, Roman and Greek, etc. etc. have so many similarties such as 12 Titans, demigods, etc.? Makes you wonder.

45

I had no idea there were people who felt like me

by Orgull in

i've recently begun challenging my beliefs.

all my beliefs, including those ingrained in me as one raised "in the truth".. a few years ago i sought therapy for chronic depression and my treatment was remarkably successful.

as a side effect, things that used to "work" for me no longer fit with the new emotional pathways and strengths i was developing.

sinis

Welcome!

And I'm still going to the meeting tomorrow night because I'm not ready to give up my friends.

Unfortunately, you will soon find that they are not your friends. They are friendly only because you are one of many. Sooner or later you will have to give up the lie, and they will disown you. Think of it this way, as you start to learn more and more about the lies, and eventually pull the curtain away to reveal the wizard, will you still be able to preach death (sometimes physical - blood doctrine - but more so mental)? Its great your looking, but I would suggest that you start to build friendships on the outside so that your not completely hanging out in the wind when you finally decide enough is enough...

36

Stern magazine - important!!!

by cultswatter in

as we all know, this picture is the subject of much controversy.

this is the picture that the wts stole and put into the live forever book.

please note the lower left of that picture.

sinis

Yes, but if the porn stars look like the WOMEN BEHIND the woman in the fore, then someone was watching something they shouldn't have been...naughty, naughty...