Posts by cecil

11

WTS and Holocaust $$$ Reparations $$$

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

this is also posted in hawkaw's un thread, which is currently down.

i posted it there since i see the wts's invitation and participation in this international conference as evidencing how successful the wts has manipulated the holocaust tragedies to further its secret agenda to weave itself into the international community, despite its expressed position that it is "no part of the world".

its interesting that as time progresses, and the wts teaches its followers that every day brings closer the destruction of this world, yet the wts continues to make every effort to move closer to the world and gain its favor.. here is a high-ranking representative of "god's earthly organization" addressing a meeting of high-ranking "worldly" vips, and where in this message is the promotion of "god's kingdom"?

cecil

Thanks MadApostate for posting this info.

I am a 4th-generation JW - although today on my way out of the JW and the WTS - and my grandfather has spent almost 5 years in 3 concentration-camps in Germany and 4 more years in prison under the Nazi-Regime. I have the greatest respect for his decision to reject any cooperation with the Nazis whatsoever, because of his being a christian - even if that meant that he wasn't able to be with my grandmother and my (at that time newborn) mother. He suffered for the rest of his life and was not able to work again, as they had smashed his hands in the concentration-camp and tortured him. I think what the Bibelforscher did, what my grandfather did was courageous - in my eyes they were heroes, he was a hero. Nothing can change my mind about that!

What I don't like and makes me feel sick at times: The way in which the WTS today uses and unscrupulously exploits what these women and men have gone through in those years in the camps for their own PR. When the only thing they want today is reparations for destroyed and confiscated material at the branch-offices, and - seems obvious after letters that have been read at meetings - look for the money that nazi-victims, still alive, might get as a restitution.

Maybe that's too simply put - but it's the way I feel, after I have seen and experienced, how my grandfather has been treated through the years. A mr. James Pellechia from the WTS, talking on behalf of JW-victims of Nazi-persecution, cannot express what my grandfather has felt, nor what my family has felt about this issue in the past 56 years. That's why I personally find the WTS-agenda for participating in such a conference disgusting!

cecil

14

144.000

by GermanXJW in

jw
friends

the number of 144.000 has been reached at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com.

just a quick note.

;-)

cecil

sorry NameWithheld - but you have a wrong understanding of this issue!

If somebody leaves he'll be invited to "Simons forum upstairs" - right away. That's what Simon has told me. Believe me! And of course there would be no need to replace such a faithful and registered user. It's only when a user is FORCED to leave (banned from the board) that one of the "other users" will be invited to take his place on the board. But that is unlikely to happen before the special simon-call is closed (about to happen in 2035, when the forum will reach 144000 registered users).

cecil

(edited to add:)
PS: Beware of false Simons, who will try to mislead you!!!

589

MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

by hawkaw in

as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.

and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .

after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk

cecil

just to tell you, that a danish newspaper is preparing a major article on the subject right now (scheduled for sometime next week). A swedish editor and a german weekly magazine, that I have been in contact with by e-mail and phone, consider the subject as well...

cecil

a PS fyi: the danish newspaper Kristeligt Dagblad (something like: "christian daily") aired an article today about "accusation of sexual abuse in a Jehovahs Witness-family". I'm not aware if the artícle was in the printed issue as well (haven't received it yet). But I think it's interesting that it mentions silentlambs.org!
* http://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/nytomkirke/artikel:aid=8960

15

Hebrews and Greek Scripture NWT

by Kophagangelos in

jw
friends

i would know more to check the hebrews scripture of nwt.

and i have found also 50 errors in the greek scripure of nwt.

i need more scripure - about 100 hebrews and 100 greek scriputres.

cecil

Hi Kophagangelos.

Have a look at Jeremiah 29:10 in your NWT, where the word "leBabel" is rendered "at Babylon", whereas most other translations - and even some NWT in other languages... - render it "for Babylon". 4 out of 5 (hebrew-)scholars I have been in contact with this year agree, that "for Babylon" is the correct translation. And COJ's GTR-3 contains quite a lot of references to well-known scholars, that agree with that as well.
To render "LeBabel" "at Babylon" instead of "for Babylon" in the NWT changes the meaning of that vers. With only one purpose: To support the WTS 607/1914-chronology!

cecil

589

MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

by hawkaw in

as of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.

and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .

after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk

cecil

Thank You!!!

I don't want to/can't use names - I might forget somebody... That's why I just want to express my deep gratitude to ALL OF YOU, who have put such an enormous effort into exposing the Watchtowers double-faced hypocrisy in this case. Thank you! Thank you so much for your great effort!

Now, that you've done your "job" - we have to do/have done (part of) ours: So far 17 newspapers in Germany, Norway, Sweden and Denmark have received the news by phone & e-mail (- and still counting!). Autumn is going to get hot this year...

cecil

19

poll? is the u.n./wtbts issue your last straw?

by zev in

jw
friends

is it your last straw?.

its my last straw.

reading that letter from the u.n. has sealed it for me.

cecil

hi zev.

something else - as you put it - "sealed it for me" a couple of months ago. But I can tell you: This one will "seal it" for more people, than we can imagine right now!!!

cecil

4

The FDS and NO governing body?!?

by cecil in

jw
friends

in the early 1990's (if i remember correct either 1991 or 1992) there were talks at the district conventions entitled "the faithful and discreet slave" and "the faithful and discreet slave (fds) and its governing body (gb)".

it was a series of talks that covered the issue fds through nearly 2000 years of history.

as usual, these talks became articles (study-articles) in the wt 6-8 months after they were held at the conventions.. the talk i remember best was "the fds and its gb".

cecil

In the early 1990's (if I remember correct either 1991 or 1992) there were talks at the district conventions entitled "The Faithful and Discreet Slave" and "The Faithful and Discreet Slave (FDS) and its Governing Body (GB)". It was a series of talks that covered the issue FDS through nearly 2000 years of history. As usual, these talks became articles (study-articles) in the WT 6-8 months after they were held at the conventions.

The talk i remember best was "The FDS and its GB". The emphasis was on how close the ties there have been between the FDS and the GB through the centuries - especially in the first century and from the late 19th century onwards. There was then - in the early 1990's absolutely no possibility to imagine a FDS without a GB. To the opposite: The GB was to be considered the most vital, most important part of the FDS - although only stated between the lines.

Things that I have heard and read in the past months have made me think: Long-time elders, two CO's and a DO (I only know his point of view by quote) have explained to me (and my father, who quoted the DO for me) that they can imagine a FDS without a GB. AND: They even can imagine a FDS that consists of both anointed and non-anointed. BECAUSE: This is the way things are going to develop anyway. The FDS could very well consist of non-anointed ONLY within a few years.

Now that one made me think. Is there something I have missed?! Is there a WT-article they have read that I have not read/seen yet. Hmmm… I don’t think so. There must be something else!

A couple of letters I have received from our branch office lately – on private questions reg. doctrinal issues - use a language and expressions (or: I can’t find some common expressions…) that seem very interesting to me: The lack of the words “The Governing Body” both stand-alone and in connection with the FDS is so obvious, that it made me wonder: Is there a hidden agenda (or an open agenda maybe, that I’ve not been aware of) that – very slowly of course - introduces a new class, a new group “to take the lead” so to speak?. The “new” FDS – now consisting of those who have worked close together with anointed (and still do so) who made up the “former” GB, but belong to “the other sheep”. A group of men that is no longer called a GB, but is an invisible group in the background to make the decisions, a group to be the FDS – but in a new shape? New light?! Is there going to be a Faithful and Discreet Slave WITHOUT a Governing Body?! New light?!

Any comments?
cecil

6

Define the term "apostate"

by Leander in

jw
friends

apparently there are several different definitions for apostate especially from the society's point of view.. .

personally i've always thought that an apostate was a person who used lies, slander and half-truths to cause others to stop serving god.

but according to the wts an apostate could be a person who causes someone to have doubts about the society regardless if the information they are presenting is the truth.. .

cecil

Leander

This is a very interesting topic, because Jehovahs Witnesses use of the word "apostate" reveals quite a lot about their way of thinking and their reasoning.

Even if a Jehovahs Witness knows how the word is defined in dictionaries and how it should be understood in the biblical and historical context, she or he would use it the way the Society has defined it: Anybody with a critical attitude towards the Society, the Governing Body, The Faithful and Discreet Slave - or anything/anybody who/that represents them, if it would amount to criticism of the top-level - or (their) doctrine may be labeled an apostate, if this person won't stop its criticism and/or stop talking to others about the issue, after having been told to stop. Regardless the info this person provides or wants to talk about is trustworthy and accurate.

I think Royce (quoted by Sam Beli - thanks for the info!) put i very well:

...
2. It's most often pressed when the USER can't defend a position.
3. It's an attempt at emotional blackmail
...
5. It's brought out when the USER is most vulnerable & weakest.
6. It usually reveals that the USER is out of intellectual ammo & Scriptural defenses.
7. It's a word the USER uses to try & control the rapid unraveling of cherished beliefs & sound argument.
...
9. I realize the USER uses the word to convey disgust & dismiss the intended target, but often "fear" is the unacknowledged motivation.
...
13. It appears to be the USER'S euphemism for "Sh*t, I just lost again! What do I do now?"
14. My last observation is that those who truly have something to say & have good articulation, documentation & argumentation of substance, rarely (if ever) use the word.
...

These observations hit the nail right on its head!! Label something "apostate", and it won't be problem for you any longer. It's so easy! That's a dead-smart way to mind-control people...

A little experience: A long-time friend of mine, the PO of the congregation I used to attend, was one of the few, who knew about my doubts and problems with the "Thruth". When I talked to him about it he suddenly got remote-controlled by the "Apostasy-program". He called the way I thought apostate without even considering the evidence. And when I asked him to have a look at the biblical evidence (Gods Word!!! The bible itself!!!) he refused that as well... His reasoning? The RESULT of my thought would equal apostasy (=criticism of the Society and the FDS) - so regardless of the evidence, even from the bible itself, he labeled the thoughts as "apostate". And then he was able to "forget" about it - no need to think about the evidence, as it would end up with apostasy anyway...
It was interestimng and revealing to see a long-time elder react this way, when confronted with thoughts (and evidence) that finally amount to nothing else, than what Jehovahs Witnesses expect others to do with their belief-system: To check it out and reassure if what they believe is correct!

The above attitude towards "apostate" thoughts label me as an apostate when I talk about my thoughts. Interesting, what a recent article in the WT stated in this regard about "harboring private ideas". That makes people apostates (in others as well as IN THEIR OWN MINDS, depending on how indoctrinated they are) already if they happen to have ideas and thoughts, that are in opposition to anything the Society teaches... That clears the way for complete mind-control.

cecil

36

Kabul Being Attacked NOW

by Englishman in

jw
friends

thats what sky news says at 5.

40 gmt.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/home.

cecil

thanks for the link/info Saint
interesting... very interesting ideed!

cecil

36

Kabul Being Attacked NOW

by Englishman in

jw
friends

thats what sky news says at 5.

40 gmt.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/home.

cecil

and keep in mind the date ... october, 7th!!!

530 years ago, on october 7th 1571, the osmanic fleet was defeated at the town of Lepanto in gulf of Korinth. Don Juan d'Austria, who lead the papal venetian league, fought Ali Pascha - and won. But this battle back then the whole thing was about international trading-routes - not about fighting terrorists.

cecil