my family has decided to shun me.
last week my brother and my husband got in a heated debate and finally my brother asked him why he doesn't believe in the jw's and he said because there religion is based on a lie.
well my parents found out and now have decided the best thing to do is shun me.
Scarlet,
This sounds quite painful indeed. I hope your parents will soon come out of their stupor and realize the folly of their actions. It's good to know your sister is not going to simply fold to the pressure.
Well, the cat is out of the bag.
Perhaps you will feel better in that you are not tiptoeing around your family anymore.
Good luck to you,
cellmould
us officials are signalling that a deal has been reached with france and russia to overcome their objections to a new resolution against iraq.
senior diplomats are discussing the latest resolution drafted by the united states at a closed-door meeting of the un security council.
iraq... will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations .
Random Task made a good point (well, at least it was a statement of the obvious):
there are evil people out there who want us dead, we have to be aware of that fact and act accordingly.
That there are people who want to kill U.S. citizens is a sombering fact that should influence our behavior. Indeed! But it does not follow that any action that comes out of George W's disturbed psyche qualifies as appropriate action. This is the area where people need to learn to think for themselves.
Again, follow this argument: 'There are evil people out there who want us dead'
That 'there are evil people out there' is actually a conclusion based upon the real fact 'there are people who want us dead'.
Action taken should address the facts, in order to change them... correct? So the action should address this question 'why are there people who want us dead?'
If you assume there is no reason, and blindly kill all the people you suspect 'want us dead', have you addressed the facts?
No.
As stated in L.A. Confidential, "Just the facts, Jack, just the facts"
Your action might (very likely, to be honest) result in the multiplication of 'people out there who want us dead'.
I will concede that 'the people who want us dead' are very ignorant people. And yes, this allows for what we call 'evil' to manifest itself in their behavior. Knowing that these people are ignorant, though, actually benefits us. Why? If the U.S. took action to ensure that it interfered not at all with the rights of citizens of Islamic countries, for example, how would these people know the U.S. from Abraham?
Pre-emptive war, however, will ensure that for many generations to come there will be 'people who hate us'.
cellmould
us officials are signalling that a deal has been reached with france and russia to overcome their objections to a new resolution against iraq.
senior diplomats are discussing the latest resolution drafted by the united states at a closed-door meeting of the un security council.
iraq... will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations .
Perry,
You are an unfortunate victim of ideological warfare. The man (Zinn) whom you attempted to malign is not such a victim. He presented his perspective, which is certainly not limited by his ethnic or religious background.
Tell me, what would be your perspective if you had been born a Muslim?
cellmould
even syria voted against iraq by voting for the un resolution.
wow!
and china did not abstain as they have in the past ... the full 15 member sercurity council gave the usa/uk what they want ... while there are no automatic military triggers, the resolution does allow for unilateral action by member states if iraq continues "material breach" which is significant language in un speak.
Amazing,
Do you really think it is wise to attack North Korea?
It is highly likely that the U.S. would blunder into fighting North Korea and Iraq at the same time. North Korea, unlike Iraq, is capable of sending missiles at Japan and the United States.
One historical note: Hitler was given power by selfishly imposed European sanctions on Germany.
Why do we suppose dethroning Iraq and suppressing its people will engender democracy? More likely is creating instability that will give rise to an ideologically driven regime. I do mean that things could be much worse than now, under Saddam.
How long was it between the end of WWI and the invasion of Poland? (hint: less than 20 years)
cellmould
us officials are signalling that a deal has been reached with france and russia to overcome their objections to a new resolution against iraq.
senior diplomats are discussing the latest resolution drafted by the united states at a closed-door meeting of the un security council.
iraq... will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations .
This thread has some real potential...
Please skim these highlights or, even better, read the articles in their entirety. The first one was written last month, on the topic of the 'Axis of Evil':
http://www.foreigncorrespondent.com/archive/axis_strikes_back.html
As this tragic farce was unfolding, a new bombshell erupted when that other tricky axis of evil, North Korea, revealed it had nuclear weapons. Now, the CIA has known since 1993 that North Korea had at least 2-3 nuclear weapons and 5,000 tons of poison gas and germs, plus the missiles and artillery to deliver them onto Seoul, the 37,000 US troops in South Korea, all of Japan, and US bases in Okinawa and Guam.
Readers of this column have also known since 1993 that North Korea had weapons of mass destruction. Since then, I've written half a dozen columns - the latest on 11 August - pointing out the utter illogic of whipping up hysteria over impotent Iraq while denying the very real threat to South Koreans, Americans, and Japanese from armed and highly dangerous North Korea.
In 1993, the Pentagon estimated that a full-scale war with North Korea would cost US forces 250,000 casualties.
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people for a purpose which is unattainable.If the purpose is to stop terrorism, even the supporters of the bombing say it won't work; if the purpose is to gain respect for the United States, the result is the opposite: all over the world there is anger and indignation at Reagan's mindless, pointless, soulless violence. We have had presidents just as violent. We have rarely had one so full of hypocritical pieties about "the right to life."
Too bad Khadafi's infant daughter died, one columnist wrote. Too bad, he said, but that's the game of war. Well, if that's the game, then let's get the hell out of it, because it is poisoning us morally, and not solving any problem. It is only continuing and escalating the endless cycle of retaliation which will one day, if we don't kick our habits, kill us all...
Let us hope that, even if this generation, its politicians, its reporters, its flag-wavers and fanatics, cannot change its ways, the children of the next generation will know better, having observed our stupidity. Perhaps they will understand that the violence running wild in the world cannot be stopped by more violence, that someone must say: we refuse to retaliate, the cycle of terrorism stops here.
I hope these links will help put things into perspective.
cellmould
i voted for only one republican in this mid-term election.
i do think that governmental positions should be filled by a diverse group of well-qualified people.. .
but it is very dangerous to allow one party (republican in particular) to have a majority, as has happened in the senate.
Brymichmom,
I didn't vote for Gray Davis either.
You know, since only about 53% percent of registered voters showed up at the polls, we lost a lot of votes that could have gone to a third party candidate. Makes you wonder, eh?
If people stop thinking they have only two choices (for example, by reading the voter booklet you get statements from 5 or so candidates), politics could work much better.
The problem I do see with that is third party candidates can take votes away from the second place candidate. (i.e. Ralph Nader/Al Gore). In the presidential election, Al Gore was clearly the more qualified of the top two. If Nader had withdrawn...
cellmould
i voted for only one republican in this mid-term election.
i do think that governmental positions should be filled by a diverse group of well-qualified people.. .
but it is very dangerous to allow one party (republican in particular) to have a majority, as has happened in the senate.
I voted for only one Republican in this mid-term election. I do think that governmental positions should be filled by a diverse group of well-qualified people.
But it is very dangerous to allow one party (Republican in particular) to have a majority, as has happened in the Senate. Now Republicans have control of legislation that passes both the House and Senate.
Would you like to know how Republicans here in voted for an issue very crucial to your health?
The bill was about drinking water.
_____________________________________________________________________________
AB 1972: Right To Know About Drinking Water Contamination
This bill would have provided consumers with information about health risks caused by contaminants in drinking water. Currently, consumers are not informed of major health risks posed by contaminated drinking water. This bill was passed by the Legislature but vetoed by the governor.
D for: 49
D against: 1
R for: 2
R against: 28
Total: 80
Percentage of Democrats voting yes: 98%
Percentage of Republicans voting no: 93%
Souce of data: http://www.calpirg.org/scorecards/assembly.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
The good news:
Republicans occupy only 37.5% of the seats in the California Assembly
The bad news:
The governor, a democrat, vetoed the bill.
I don't claim to speak for him.
cellmould
Edited by - cellomould on 7 November 2002 16:15:51
* bunche was the first black person to win the nobel peace prize, awarded in 1950.
* in 1927 bunche graduated from the university of california at los angeles.
* at harvard university, in 1934, he became the first african-american to earn a ph.d. in government and international relations.
Francois,
You have made some interesting observations. I would be, though, quite hesistant to shift the blame on the 'left' for trying to keep blacks illiterate and otherwise uneducated.
Segregation is still a reality. Now, it is economic rather than primarily racial. In general, blacks are no longer excluded simply because they are black. But we are kidding ourselves if we don't recognize the effects of 100 years of bad social policy (~ 1860-1960). Blacks were excluded in those years from social and economic benefits, often in defiance of the federal government, simply because they were black.
The fears held by whites were used to justify oppression and outright persecution of blacks.
Then the results of such oppression and outright persecution (poor, illiterate blacks confined to black neighborhoods, where crime and violence became rampant) were used to justify continued fear of blacks.
Your point about people needing a subservient and ignorant class of people well illustrates the fears of the white community in general. Would you agree that these attitudes caused the disparities we now see?
In my opinion, one ignorant and uneducated class of people felt threatened by the opportunities and freedom available to another ignorant and uneducated class of people. So, like yourself, I don't place the blame among the rich and well educated. (Maybe the uneducated rich )
By the way, if whites hadn't been quite as effective in exterminating and exploiting the Native Americans, don't you think people would fear them too?
AGuest,
I enjoyed your comments about 'protest' in the Middle East. That was a very interesting way to look at it.
Thanks for your replies,
cellmould
i never really understood why the wts used bce/ce.
can anyone tell me why?
and can anyone tell me when they started to use this system?
I liked the analogy about passengers on the city bus. It's tolerable to sit next to someone when the bus is crowded, but people try to avoid each other when the crowd thins out; they actually get up and move.
That always makes me laugh.
Well spoken.
cellmould
the problem.
many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.
a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.
This post and all the comments have been an enjoyable read...
...my addition to the topic is regarding the 'justice' involved in using two witnesses to make an accusation. Every day we read comments clamoring for 'justice' within the JW organization, i.e. disfellowshipping the accused.
This is neither justice nor much of a real protection for the children. From whence come all the comments about taking the matter to the proper authorities. On the money, folks.
Of course, the elders would like to believe that the channel through which they receive their chain-of-command is somehow tuned in to a higher authority. Well, that reminds me of a commercial I've seen a few times:
Who says, by the way, that the Jewish religious leaders aren't the ones still in cahoots with God?
Let's look at Matthew chapter 28, where, in one fell swoop, Jesus appropriated the authority of the Jewish religious leaders:
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in [1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:17-19 :: New International Version (NIV)
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+28:17-19&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on
Disregarding the fact that fully 1/3 of the world's population were already adherents of a Christian faith, the group that became known as Jehovah's Witnesses took up the cause of world evangelism yet again, thus appropriating the authority of Jesus. (which we are not so sure existed in the first place, considering what the folks at Hebrew National, makers of fine hot dogs, have told us):
*** Watchtower 1933 November 1 p.296 ***http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/channel.htm It will take quite a while yet before it sets it with the religious leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses that they might not be communing with any higher power whatsoever. Who knows...they may in the future invest in bloodless meat products rather than magazine sales. cellmould
[Not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]As surely as Jehovah has an organization on the earth, just so surely he is feeding the members of that organization by the hand of Christ Jesus. The facts prove that he uses the Watchtower publications to bring these truth to attention of his remnant ...
