Posts by Caedes

14

Manitoba Jehovah's Witness teen says she was scared by forced transfusion

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

apparently, this is on ctv news tonight.

i'll give an update after i watch it... .

http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n090780a.

Caedes

I am thankful that I was never put in that situation, I don't know if I would have bowed to my parents pressure to refuse a blood transfusion. I suppose it would have depended on how old I was. What I have no doubt about though, is that if I had bowed to that pressure I would easily have been able to convince other people that it was 'my' informed decision.

I don't think any child bought up as a witness is capable of making an informed decision regarding blood transfusions since they are only informed of the witness party line on the subject as well as being subject to a great deal of pressure to conform.

If it were up to me I would take this decision away from every dub parent for the simple reason that the vast majority of children raised by witnesses will leave the religion. I can't think of anything more ridiculous than martyring children for a cult that they will in all probability leave once they are old enough to leave home.

29

The October Awake on Creation/Evolution!

by Gill in

i don't know if parts of this mag have been discussed.

i've been reading it slowly, and though evolution/creation is not an argument i want to get in to (each to his own) there are a few points that i'm going to bring out in the next week or so that 'irritated me'.. does science contradict the genesis account?.

page 19 subheading 'creations appear gradually'.

Caedes

What annoys me the most about that article, is this:
Moses wrote his account in Hebrew, and he wrote it from the persepctive of a person standing on the surface of the earth.
...because it`s true, but why do they fail to see the implications of it!? Why can`s they see that the same goes for the rest of the Bible too?

As M*a*s*h has previously pointed out they are on a climbdown from their previous position regarding evolution/creation, it sounds to me that this is all tied into moving away from a literal creationist position to more of a intelligent design position.

They have started using all the ID-ot buzzwords and been quoting michael Behe.

I doubt if they have considered the implications since no jw is going to change their view until the gb gives them 'new light' I doubt it will be a problem.

91

Evolution still bugs me

by Geronimo in

i know there are a lot of threads on evolution and creation and i've read a few here and there.

how can complex systems arise of themselves in the face of entropy?

one evolutionist book i read used snowflakes to show this is possible.

Caedes

DD

Yes as I stated I have read the article I am fully aware of the analogy being made. I am also pretty certain I noticed the use of the word information , The article is attempting to say that entropy and the laws of thermodynamics can be applied to information and that thus evolution can't take place. Well if you are going to make an analogy you need to understand the basic principles of what you are using as an example. If you don't understand that entropy can decrease as well as increase within a system just by applying energy then your analogy is going to be very weak.

It is also important to understand that information isn't energy, you can destroy information. Thus your analogy isn't working on the most fundamental law of physics that thermodynamics is based on i.e the conservation of energy.

Nice try but no cigar.

91

Evolution still bugs me

by Geronimo in

i know there are a lot of threads on evolution and creation and i've read a few here and there.

how can complex systems arise of themselves in the face of entropy?

one evolutionist book i read used snowflakes to show this is possible.

Caedes

Greendawn,

The ability of humans to understand abstract concepts is an evolutionary answer to building complex social groups. We are the top predator on the planet not because we have the biggest teeth or the strongest limbs or can run quickly but because we are able to cooperate in a way no other animal can, we adapt our environment to suit ourselves and to allow us to control our food source. We are only the top animal because of our social groupings.

An ability to understand abstract concepts like morality is an evolutionary advantage in large social groups. I would imagine that it had a lot to do with the development of language. Being able to understand an abstract idea such as god is just a part of that ability. A human desire for a caring god who loves us despite growing up in an uncaring darwinian world should come as little surprise to anyone. what it doesn't demonstrate is any kind of proof of a spiritual world. So no it isn't strange that evolution has given us an ability to understand abstract concepts, it helped maintain our social groupings.

91

Evolution still bugs me

by Geronimo in

i know there are a lot of threads on evolution and creation and i've read a few here and there.

how can complex systems arise of themselves in the face of entropy?

one evolutionist book i read used snowflakes to show this is possible.

Caedes

Deputy dog,
well? no answer?

Oops my apologies, I appear to have lost the rest of my post!

In short what the rest of that post should have said is that I read the article on thermodynamics and entropy posted by dd, It's clearly written by someone with no knowledge of thermodynamics at all and seems to have been written to try and sell the book mentioned and only includes a couple of short quotes that don't really tell you anything. Perhaps you would care for a link to a website selling books by Prof. Dawkins?!

I can only guess at the actual content of the book since the quotes are so few and so short, on the basis of the quotes included in the article I would assume the book is not technical and that the author doesn't have a good enough technical understanding of thermodynamics to understand how the laws of thermodynamics applies to other systems.

The best example I can think of is of hydroponics, when a plant grows it decreases entropy (i.e. it stores energy in an ordered state) but quite obviously it wont do that on it's own because that would be breaking the laws of thermodynamics, you have to add energy to the sytem by switching on lamps to provide the plant with the energy it needs to decrease entropy. Those lamps burn fuel which increases entropy (i.e stored energy is released from an ordered state to a disordered state) in our case the lamp is our sun.

91

Evolution still bugs me

by Geronimo in

i know there are a lot of threads on evolution and creation and i've read a few here and there.

how can complex systems arise of themselves in the face of entropy?

one evolutionist book i read used snowflakes to show this is possible.

Caedes

Deputy dog,

well? no answer?

91

Evolution still bugs me

by Geronimo in

i know there are a lot of threads on evolution and creation and i've read a few here and there.

how can complex systems arise of themselves in the face of entropy?

one evolutionist book i read used snowflakes to show this is possible.

Caedes

Maybe you should read the whole title and the article

I studied mechanical engineering at university, and if anyone states that thermodynamics and entropy is the 'enemy of evolution' then they don't really understand the subject. The fundamental concept that we are talking about is the fact that you do not get something for nothing and that to obtain a localised decrease in entropy then there must be paid for by putting work in elsewhere which will cause entropy to increase. In no way do the laws of thermodynamics prevent you from getting a localised decrease in entropy, it just has to be paid for elsewhere in your system. For example your car does work by moving you from one place to another (a decrease in entropy) at the cost of burnt fuel (an increase in entropy)

In our case the cost is the burning of nuclear fuel in the sun which pays for our localised decrease (the earth's biosphere) in entropy.

Anybody who is writing anything about thermodynamics should understand that since it is a basic concept.

91

Evolution still bugs me

by Geronimo in

i know there are a lot of threads on evolution and creation and i've read a few here and there.

how can complex systems arise of themselves in the face of entropy?

one evolutionist book i read used snowflakes to show this is possible.

Caedes

the concept of entropy, which is the enemy of evolution

That made me laugh, what a completely stupid title. There is a huge entropy 'cost' for life on earth, it's the sun burning nuclear fuel. Any first year physics student could tell you that. If you are looking at the entropy of a system you have to include the motor, If you didn't have to include it in your entropy calculations it would be very easy to come up with a perpetual motion machine!

There are two questions to ask yourself regarding how life got here,

firstly there are two ways that life arose in the universe (and specifically on earth) either by entirely natural means or through some supernatural means. It's a simple choice it's either one or the other. For me personally the former is by far the simpler answer.

If you are a theist does it really matter to you and your relationship with your god what science can prove regarding how life got here, just suppose in a hundred years science has a solid model of how abiogenesis works, there will still be people who believe in religion and a god who started the big bang because fundamentally it doesn't matter what science can prove if you really believe in your god. At the end of the day no theist is ever going to be able to prove god started it all or prove any of the fundamental laws of evolution are wrong, just sit back and be amazed at how much scientists understand of your god's handiwork.

84

Weird crop circle sighting...

by troubled mind in

jw
friends

my husbands cousin lives in a small rural area in illinois and over the weekend crop circles appeared in their soybean crop .

i just talked to his cousin , and she is beside herself from all the publicity .

she said the phone started ringing at 6am this morning .

Caedes

http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/2005/wuarchives2005.htm

Wow! If Regis says that no crop circle is a hoax then it must be true, he's written a book and everything. I think the reptilians (I mean who else could it be?) must have implanted the idea for spirograph in somebody's head so that we can inadvertently teach our kids to read these patterns. Scary stuff.

21

do you believe in the stars?

by Cordelia in

jw
friends

obviously not the real stars everyone believes they're there!.

but ive been interested in everything i couldnt be as a jw, ghosts ghouls, been to a wicker thing with sirona , had a physic reading etc.

and ive just got a kit on how the stars influence your life and how you can do a birth chjart or something, but i dont understand it, and just wondered if anyof you guys are into it and can explain it to me?.

Caedes

Gill,

That was the really wierd part, she had written quite a bit about my feelings and how I perceived the world not much about my past or future really. But it was all stuff you wouldn't pick up from some brief conversations on a crowded train. I should also point out she had gone to the same school (different classes) as I did but we didn't meet until college. I suppose she could have been stalking me or something