some souls here may feel i was a little harsh.
if so, i am deeply sorry.
i was abused by a handful right from the start, presumably on the basis of the avatar picture (and 2001 vintage).. when visiting dubland, i often find that others start fights with me - for whatever reason, and i provide quite a supply of them - and when it doesn't quite go the way they expected, they cry persecution.
To other entertainment: Re the flowchart (the honey to bring in some flies) - A good suggestion to add Epicurus to the (c), though much of the chart is not explicitly covered in his deliberations - I shall.
No, I said replace not add. That Epicurus is more succinct and general does nothing to take away from the fact you plagiarised his work applied it to one specific god and claimed his work as your own.
some souls here may feel i was a little harsh.
if so, i am deeply sorry.
i was abused by a handful right from the start, presumably on the basis of the avatar picture (and 2001 vintage).. when visiting dubland, i often find that others start fights with me - for whatever reason, and i provide quite a supply of them - and when it doesn't quite go the way they expected, they cry persecution.
I think that flow chart should say copyright Epicurus 300BC.
i've heard some view points that state, atheists are generally more moral & caring for fellow humans, than are theists.. i'd like to hear some personal stories of life changes and quality of life after you became atheist.
i have a simple theory that may explain this.. i'll explain my theory if you'd like, after a few responses, as i really am interested in the personal changes that you experienced.. thank you very much, and i look forward to your stories..
Objective truth,
I've heard some view points that state, Atheists are Generally more Moral & Caring for fellow humans, than are Theists.
Thread title: Question for Atheists.. Did you gain a Greater Sense of Morality and Happiness?
I dont think the Question is which group is "better". The question is What Positive & Negative Effects does organized religion have on individuals
Well going by your OP and assuming that being more moral and more caring and being happier is generally regarded as being "better" how else would you describe your question? In fact you have reiterated the statement in your OP in subsequent posts on this very thread.
You didn't ask your second question in your OP or indeed in any of your subsequent posts to this thread. In fact your OP specifically asked about atheists not theists.
I can answer to some degree your second question but it seems somewhat strange to complain to someone answering your thread that they answered the OP rather than a question that only exists in your head is baffling and bizarre behaviour.
i've heard some view points that state, atheists are generally more moral & caring for fellow humans, than are theists.. i'd like to hear some personal stories of life changes and quality of life after you became atheist.
i have a simple theory that may explain this.. i'll explain my theory if you'd like, after a few responses, as i really am interested in the personal changes that you experienced.. thank you very much, and i look forward to your stories..
I think it is patronizing and absurd to suggest one group is 'better' than the other. There are moral and happy atheists and there are immoral and unhappy ones too, theists would be the same. I would be very surprised if atheists were more moral and caring as a group, I would expect the results to be very similar.
I don't believe in it, the evidence supports the theory.
i took up cycing a couple of months ago just to get fitter and lose a bit of excess weight.. i bought a second-hand hybrid bike (weighs only slightly less than a truck) and fitted road tyres.
four or five times a week i will go for a ride after work for an hour or so.
i am fortunate enough to live in rural north england surrounded by limitless quiet roads.
I have been riding all my life.
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Felt-F75X-2013-Cyclocross-Bike_57367.htm
That is my latest bike, its a cyclo cross bike so you can ride off-road and on-road. I've upgraded quite a few bits on it. First thing to do was get clipless pedals so your feet are attached to the pedals and a better saddle.
I also have an Ellsworth moment mountain bike but I rarely get to anything lumpy enough to warrant a full suspension mountain bike.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Seraphim,
Any use of energy is going to increase chaos.
Overall entropy increases regardless of what we do. You think that your choices makes even a scratch on the surface of the 5.5 x 10 24 J (5.5 YottaJoules) of energy we get from the sun every day?
So when do you explain the link between free will and natural disasters?
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Seraphim,
I don't think you can say I'm close-minded to what you have to say, because you haven't said anything yet.
Entropy is a natural process that will carry on long after the human race goes the way of the dodo.
There is no link because ultimately it makes no difference if you choose to eat bad food or good food, entropy in the universe as a whole increases regardless. In fact your choice of what to eat makes no difference to the amount of energy being pumped into the earth by our sun. In fact if you think of an example, there is a blackberry bush outside, the bush will continue to fruit regardless of whether they are eaten or not. That local decrease in entropy happens regardless of my choice to eat the blackberries.
Even if you take the case of putting fuel in your car and you use some of that millenia old energy to drive around all you have done is converted some energy into a different form and used it quicker than it might have been used otherwise. So i am afraid you have failed to show a mechanical link between free will and thermodynamics.
So you have still failed to show any sort of connection between free will and natural disasters.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Seraphim,
I haven’t really Caedes, as it is eminently logical to see that choices can only be good or bad and the universe has to have both to make such choice a reality. The mechanism, if you want to call it that, is thermodynamics.
It is probably only fair to warn you that as an engineer I have a pretty good understanding of thermodynamics. There is no link between thermodynamics, free will in human beings and natural disasters. If you have empirical evidence you should present it and take your place as one of the most important scientists of our age.
Surely however, you appreciate that choices can be neutral? Or do you gloss over that because it highlights just how false your dichotomy is.
So I will repeat my question since you haven't answered it yet, what is the link?
You didn't answer my other question either "what makes a natural disaster, 'so called'"
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Seraphim, you have failed to show that natural disasters are linked to free will, what mechanism links the two?
