Posts by Caedes

47

The Illusion of Superiority

by Coded Logic in

after reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.

let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.

its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!

Caedes

How to make friends and influence people! Now where is the popcorn?

137

9yr old girl kills her gun instructor with an uzi

by EndofMysteries in

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t2.

"a 9-year-old girl learning to fire a submachine gun accidentally killed her instructor at a shooting range when the weapon recoiled over her shoulder, according to arizona authorities.

another reason to go against those arguing that young children should be taught how to use guns.

Caedes

ADCMS

"There are ways to reduce the chance a 9 year old girl will shoot someone in the face with an uzzi accidentally kill herself colliding with a tree while downhill skiing: Dont give her a loaded uzzi and ask her to shoot it pair of skis and tell her to slalom."

.

So the next time we hear a story about a 9 year-old who gets into the driver's seat of the family car and accidentally kills her dad by running him over in the driveway, I expect to hear a lot of JWN posters call for the banning of automobiles. The only way to make cars safe is to make sure no one has one.

This is your post where you make a slippery slope argument that banning children from firing uzis would lead to banning skiing and cars. I am not sure how you would read this other than to conclude that the correct course of action is to do nothing since you are clearly not advocating the banning of cars, nail guns or skiing.

So you haven't been claiming throughout this thread that children should not be allowed to do this.

As to your other points, the UK has a much broader definition of violent crime than most countries so the comparison on violent crime is not comparable to the states. The comparison on gun crime is, gun crime in japan and the UK is negligible compared to the states.

137

9yr old girl kills her gun instructor with an uzi

by EndofMysteries in

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t2.

"a 9-year-old girl learning to fire a submachine gun accidentally killed her instructor at a shooting range when the weapon recoiled over her shoulder, according to arizona authorities.

another reason to go against those arguing that young children should be taught how to use guns.

Caedes

ADCMS,

Your knee jerk reaction was to claim that it was just an accident so we should do nothing because other wise we have to ban cars and nail guns. I am saying that you can ban small children from having or using this type of weapons, you don't have to ban cars as well.

Should we ban small children from other dangerous activities? Personally I think each case should be looked at on it's own merits. In this case you have a culture developing that directly puts people in danger and hence legislation is appropriate. So in answer to your question no, you are not going to see things banned because a 'special interest' group (for that read general public) says so, each case is going to be different.

Perhaps you should look at it another way, you live in a democracy, that democracy imposes its will on you in lots of different ways; how many members of the general public have to die before the general public get to decide for you that your way of life is too dangerous to tolerate?

I asked TD to expand on a point he made earlier, I am an engineer I am interested to know if TD thinks there were technical reasons why this weapon is so dangerous in the hands of children? You seem to be reading a lot into my posts, I have no retort for TD, it's just an interesting technical detail. Would it make any difference to my conclusion that it is simple to ban children from using this sort of weapon? No, but that doesn't mean I cannot ask someone a question. I am also interested in why you think I should not ask TD a question?

I'm afraid I was unaware that people let children engage in such a stupidly dangerous activity before this story broke, if you had asked me a month ago I would have said the same thing.

I would say the owner and manager of the range should be held partly responsible for the instructors death for allowing this in the first place.

137

9yr old girl kills her gun instructor with an uzi

by EndofMysteries in

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t2.

"a 9-year-old girl learning to fire a submachine gun accidentally killed her instructor at a shooting range when the weapon recoiled over her shoulder, according to arizona authorities.

another reason to go against those arguing that young children should be taught how to use guns.

Caedes

ADCMS,

At every stage I have quoted in my posts what I was replying to, the fact that your position has changed over the course of this thread is not something I have any control over. You didn't give a simple synopsis of what happened, you claimed it was just an accident and that it was the same as car accidents or sport accidents and made the point that if people asked for gun control it was the same as asking for cars or skiing to be banned. Would you like me to quote your posts 3266, 3267 and 3268 as evidence?

This was not an accident, any reasonable person can see that it could have been forseen that giving a child an uzi was going to result in this kind of incident. Any kind of health and safety management assessement should have asked the question what could possibly go wrong if we give small children automatic weapons. They either didn't ask the question or ignored the obvious solution to the problem. Quite clearly the responsibility for this incident lies with the instructor and weapon range manager and with the parents for allowing their child to be in that situation.

I am sure if you had asked the guy who died or the parents they would have told you they were responsible gun owners. I am sure the vast majority of gun owners do act responsibly, my point was that you can't always trust peoples own assessment of their competence and that the only discussion going on in the states by gun owners is people stating that they will not support any level of gun control. The very act of saying you support no or little gun control is being irresponsible.

I hate to break it to you but comparing levels of gun control between states in the US is laughable, try comparing with japan or the UK if you want to see the effects of genuine gun control.

TD,

I would be interested to know what the effects of the lower powered cartridge have on the mechanism, presumably a lower power cartridge results in less muzzle climb? Is there a mechanism in the uzi to minimise the muzzle climb problem? Is it possible that a lower power cartridge somehow makes the weapon less controllable?

87

Brett King (Jehovah's Witness) Releases Video of why he removed his ill son, Ashya, from a UK hospital

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14etqn9zpwk .

jw leaks.

Caedes

Hmm, yes, sign a petition to encourage the reckless endangerment of children. Did you forget how highly the WBTS value potential martyrs for the cause? Some people have very short memories.

87

Brett King (Jehovah's Witness) Releases Video of why he removed his ill son, Ashya, from a UK hospital

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14etqn9zpwk .

jw leaks.

Caedes

I had a relative who had both chemo and radiotherapy recently and it did involve umpteen blood transfusions. my experience of the doctors involved was that they were very caring and had only the interests of the patient at heart.

I doubt the parents version of events especially as I know that in the case of my relative he had the opportunity to use his private medical insurance and this option was discussed quite readily by the NHS doctors involved. I suspect that there is more to this story than meets the eye, the coverage by the media has given away very little information about the reasons for the removal of the child from medical care or what triggered that decision.

Given the JWs history I find the story from the doctors to be far more believeable. After all why would you take a sick child on a very long road trip to spain, why not just fly? It would be cheaper and quicker. The fact that they got to the continent by ferry suggests that they knew they would get stopped by the police if they flew.

137

9yr old girl kills her gun instructor with an uzi

by EndofMysteries in

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t2.

"a 9-year-old girl learning to fire a submachine gun accidentally killed her instructor at a shooting range when the weapon recoiled over her shoulder, according to arizona authorities.

another reason to go against those arguing that young children should be taught how to use guns.

Caedes

I don't see that responding to your post is me 'blasting' you, I responded point by point to your post that I quoted. You were the one claiming that an accident with a nail gun or car or skis is the same as one with a military grade weapon.

I was responding to what you wrote only and haven't claimed that you were advocating children firing automatic weaponry, that should be clear from my post.

What I would say is that you do seem to be defending the indefensible by claiming this was just an accident, at what point do responsible gun owners say there is a discourse to be had with regards to sensible gun control. So far it looks like the only people who have a say in the US is irresponsible gun owners and their knee-jerk aversity to any kind of gun controls whatsoever.

67

Child with brain tumour taken from UK hospital by JW parents

by Fe2O3Girl in

jw
friends

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28978655.

a five-year-old boy with a brain tumour has been taken without consent from hospital by his parents, sparking a major police hunt for the family.. ashya king was taken from southampton general hospital and is now believed to be in france with his parents and six siblings.. police said he needs constant medical care and there are "serious concerns" for his life if he is not found today.. brett king, 51, and naghemeh king, 45 removed him from the ward on thursday.. ashya's father was pictured taking him from the hospital"everyone is sending their love now.

we love you so much and we want to see you very soon and i love you so much and can't wait to see you.".

Caedes

Oops I shouldn't take so long between writing a post and hitting submit!

67

Child with brain tumour taken from UK hospital by JW parents

by Fe2O3Girl in

jw
friends

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28978655.

a five-year-old boy with a brain tumour has been taken without consent from hospital by his parents, sparking a major police hunt for the family.. ashya king was taken from southampton general hospital and is now believed to be in france with his parents and six siblings.. police said he needs constant medical care and there are "serious concerns" for his life if he is not found today.. brett king, 51, and naghemeh king, 45 removed him from the ward on thursday.. ashya's father was pictured taking him from the hospital"everyone is sending their love now.

we love you so much and we want to see you very soon and i love you so much and can't wait to see you.".

Caedes

I'm just asking, but the BBC report doesn't mention that they are JWs. Does the youtube video state that they are JWs?

When I heard this news this morning I did wonder if they were.

137

9yr old girl kills her gun instructor with an uzi

by EndofMysteries in

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=hp_t2.

"a 9-year-old girl learning to fire a submachine gun accidentally killed her instructor at a shooting range when the weapon recoiled over her shoulder, according to arizona authorities.

another reason to go against those arguing that young children should be taught how to use guns.

Caedes

Flawed logic caedes.

Accidents happen, whether through deliberate misuse of something or if all safety precautions have been observed.

A firearm is a tool (whether for hunting, self-defense or target shooting) and has an inherent risk in using it. Power saws and air nailers are also tools that have an inherent risk in their use. And, even when done safely, accidents still happen.

The difference is when a carpenter accidentally cuts off a finger or hand with a power saw, no one begins clamoring for the banning of power saws.

If this girl was being instructed in the use of an air nailer, and she accidentally killed her instructor with that air nailer, would you use the same argument you used above??

ADCMS

Yes, accidents do happen even if all safety precautions have been taken. In this case however the correct safety precaution would have been to not give a small 9 year old child a high powered military grade full auto weapon.

Some firearms may be tools, an uzi cannot be used for any of the things you mentioned, it is far too indiscriminate a weapon.

As I stated in my earlier post those items have a use beyond killing people and thus is a risk we bear as a society.

No, I wouldn't use the same argument because an air-powered nail gun has a use that is not killing people, I stated that quite clearly in my earlier post.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean their logic is faulty, however there may be a fault in your logic if you cannot see that indiscrimate military grade weapons do not sit in the same category as cars, motorbikes, power tools or any of the other things that could potentially cause a fatal accident. All of those other things have some sort of beneficial use, an uzi is only of use if you want to kill someone. You couldn't even use it for self defense since it is such an indiscriminate weapon.

People have fatal accidents with all sorts of inoccuous objects, that doesn't mean we should not exercise common sense with regard to how really dangerous equipment is allowed to be used. I can see no problem with the fact that I had to go through rigorous tests to obtain car and motorbike licenses to show that I can operate those machines safely. I am unable to drive a heavy goods vehicle because I have not had the training or taken the test to show that I can operate such a dangerous machine safely. A child would not even be allowed to do the training or take the test.

If you cannot see how it would be appropriate to apply the same logic to even more dangerous machinery then I would have to say that you are beyond reason on this topic.