Caedes

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Posts by Caedes

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  11

  Waters Under the Oceans?

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  interesting article from the bbc.. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141029-are-oceans-hiding-inside-earth.

  (genesis 7:11) "....on that day all the springs of the vast watery deep burst open....".

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  Caedes

  cantleave,

  To be absolutely accurate there is liquid water in porous rocks as well as water that is bound up in certain minerals. There is an awful lot of water in the rocks below us and it can rise to the surface under certain geological conditions but if there was enough of that to cause world wide flooding then you would have bigger problems than just how quickly can you put on a pair of wellington boots. Anyone hoping for geological proof of the biblical flood is going to be very disappointed though.
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  10

  good question ( sorry about the f word )

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Caedes

  I don't see anything on a linguistic level concerning the names of the apostles to support the idea that the gospels are a myth.

  Have a look at Dr Richard Carrier's lectures on youtube, there are several and they are very interesting.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyudP5z2Xw

  He talks about how the language used in the gospels directly suggests that the writer of the gospels was writing allegory not history. He originally was trying to prove the historicity of jesus but found overwhelming evidence that he was wrong in his assumptions.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

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  Caedes

  The only way that would decrease complexity is if somehow a creator could have a negative complexity

  As ever other people express these things so much more eloquently than I do.

  I'm not sure what something with negative complexity looks like but I could do with one on my desk! It would make work so much easier.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

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  Caedes

  Again both points are outside of any empirical evidence, there is no reason to subscribe to such hypothesis.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Caedes

  I'm not arguing that the "something from nothing" hypothesis is incredible (as in, "unbelievable"), but simply pointing out that it's arrogant of humans to think they really have already, at this primitive stage of science, worked out the answer to how the universe got here. We don't know nearly enough to say that such a scientific idea is probable, only that it's possible, let alone do we know enough to say that the idea of a creator is less possible.

  The point I was making is specifically not stating an answer to how we got here. It is also not claiming any particular knowledge since I am specifically stating that the natural universe (including all its unknowns) is the same for both positions.

  I would say that we do know enough to say the idea of a creator is less possible. For example every single process that we have studied has a natural cause, there is not one process that requires supernatural intervention. Why on earth should that 100% rate be broken? There is no reason to suppose that it would be.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Caedes

  If you cannot understand how adding a powerful creator god adds a hugely additional level of complexity to the natural universe then I don't know I can help you. We are not talking about maths we are talking about the concept. Of course any god sufficiently powerful to create universes has to be more complex than it's creation.

  If so, by complex do you mean composed of "many parts" (Dawkins type definition)?

  and, if so, What is the evidence that a supernatural God must be composed of "parts"???

  Hooberus,

  I am not interested in getting into an argument with you regarding semantics, this discussion is about logic, if you had a serious point to make regarding my posts you would have made it already. How many times do I have to state that there is not one scrap of empirical evidence for your god? My point is that a proposed god that can create universes must logically be complex. I am not stating anything about your god other than that. If you think that your god must or must not have parts that is your problem to define not mine.
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  11

  Waters Under the Oceans?

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  interesting article from the bbc.. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141029-are-oceans-hiding-inside-earth.

  (genesis 7:11) "....on that day all the springs of the vast watery deep burst open....".

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Caedes

  Kaik is right, underground aquifers are in porous rocks. They aren't oceans as such, the water isn't slopping about in underground caverns. The water can end up mixed with oil and gas deposits in the same rock.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Caedes

  Here's a key difference in our perspective, however: you're suggesting that only a small portion of this god would be used for the universe. I'm suggesting that it could be half of the god, or even the whole god. We can't theorize what a god would be made of. It could be that he has no "body" and is all "mind". In that case the god could have essentially turned himself into the universe.

  Even if you take your example of a god turning itself into our universe that process would involve the transformation of energy from one form into another, assuming that this transformation follows the laws of physics then a certain portion of that transformation would involve entropy losses. Hence you still have the same problem that you had before just on a smaller scale.

  If you want to say your god is utterly unfalsifiable that is fine by me, I thought that anyway.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Caedes

  Apognophos,

  What you describe is commonly referred to as 'last thursdayism' and is utterly unfalsifiable and meaningless.

  if the creator is using any part of himself to produce the universe, then the complexity is the same -- whether he uses his brain or a portion of his body to construct the universe. The amount of information that he would be dedicating to the universe would be the same whether it came from what we would consider to be its mind or its body (its "active force", to borrow a JWism). It seems that most people assume that a creator would build the universe with new material that it summoned into existence, but this ought to be impossible. It's more logical to imagine that it must use a part of itself.

  You are then stuck back with the same problem, this (god's spare third testicle) universe that you are talking about has the same level of complexity as my materialistic natural universe. You still have the same problem I described before, that the rest of your god (sans third testical) also has a seperate level of complexity.
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  116

  Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chris tann,.

  in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

  however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Caedes

  I have yet to read or hear an explanation that cotradicts that world picture

  'A brief history of time' by Hawking contradicts your view of time and the universe. It is well worth reading.