I did this personally. I made it to MS and was about to be appointed Elder when I decided I no longer had the stomach for it and resigned. They tried to talk me out of resigning (stepping down). Then they waited over three months before announcing it hoping I would still change my mind.
I started out to prove it wasn't appointment by holy spirit and felt I proved it fully to myself. It was strictly politics and knowing who to do what for.
My problem was that I am much too moral to be dogmatically preaching something I don't believe. The shepherding visits and counseling of individuals was what really got to me as in several cases these people were really trying to good and got totally trampled by the elder I was accompanying.
Gander
JoinedPosts by Gander
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Athiest Elders?
by AK - Jeff inthis thought is inspired by hopie's thread about going undercover to rescue her daughter.. i have often wondered if any others have done the same, but for differing reasons?
before i left, and when i had become aware that something was wrong with the 'men appointed by holy spirit' doctrine that elevates elders to the full rank of pharisee, i considered the possibility of moving to an area in which i was unknown and beginning the correct politics needed to 'make elder'.
i wanted to see if i could go from disgruntled, unsure this was even god's organization, to 'elder in shekinah light standing' in less than two years.
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Gander
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Desperately seeking fade
by 5thGeneration in.
i really want out but keep going for personal reasons.. my question: has anyone else during their fade period gone off the school, quit do-t-do and just gone to the sunday meeting?.
that's where i'm at right now but it's a living hell still 'being' a publisher but being a lump at the same time..
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Gander
Has anyone else during their fade period gone off the school, quit do-t-do and just gone to the Sunday meeting?
The boat you describe is pretty much the one I am in. I have come to a place where I can get a great deal of physical and mental rest during my required "lump" time at the meetings. -
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Jewish Holidays
by moomanchu in.
since jw,s cannot celebrate "christian holidays" can they celebrate jewish holidays.
i asked my mom this question never got an answer.. jesus was at the temple for the feast of the dedication for starters.. thoughts
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Gander
In other words, if what you are doing feels wrong to you then it is wrong. Obviously there are some notable exceptions to this such as murder that is just wrong period. Since God reads hearts according to the Bible, he can see what it means to you when are observe something. He can tell if you are observing a birthday simply out of greed or because you wish to continue some obscure ancient pagan ritual. If in your heart you are simply wanting to show someone else you care for them by observing their birthday, God will know you are showing love to another human. How can that be wrong?
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May 7, 06 WT Study - Invalid Baptism
by Gander inas the study went on i began to think about the baptism annulment letters i have seen people composing on this board.
what if you just told everyone you never dedicated yourself to jehovah?.
of course they would call you a liar for having said yes to the two questions during the baptism talk.
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Gander
"I think if you claim you were too young yet continued as a baptized JW when you turned 18 and after, I don't think you would get very far with this."
I agree it would never fly in the organization. However, if you implant on a young person through peer pressure the need to conform or be rejected you strongly impact their future ability to rationaly decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. Many faithful witnesses would be shocked and say that deciding for ourselves is definitely wrong. But the Bible indicates that we must do this for each must answer to God individually. That is why we have a conscience. That is why we have free will. But alas, I understand that the reply will be that I am right but this is a high-control society and therefore we are not allowed to think for ourselves.
I can see why individuals have said in the past that religion is a crutch for the week minded. I don't personally hold this view of spirituality. However, a group such as the Jehovah's Witnesses certainly fits that description as I think it is a very comfortable feeling for those too lazy or too confused to think for themselves. I know I fit into that group in the past. Too bad I can't turn my rational mind off and be comfortably numb. -
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May 7, 06 WT Study - Invalid Baptism
by Gander inas the study went on i began to think about the baptism annulment letters i have seen people composing on this board.
what if you just told everyone you never dedicated yourself to jehovah?.
of course they would call you a liar for having said yes to the two questions during the baptism talk.
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Gander
I think the result of a successful baptism annulment would be no announcement and no further accountability to or possible action from the organization.
Regarding the age of baptism, look at next week's study. They first say how someone must have a full mental understanding of the issues and a sound basis for faith. Then they show the picture of a little girl getting baptised. Wasn't Jesus 32? I know he was at least 30. If I had waited until that age and still decided to be baptized I would at least feel obligated to abide by it. There is a reason children in the US can't be legally bound by a contract under the age of 18 without a guardian's concent. They simply don't have the life experience to be held accountable yet. Afterall, foolishness is in the heart of a boy. -
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Do Individual JWs Pay For The Publications They Distribute?
by Joe Grundy inexcuse my ignorance, and i've read on boards about the us not selling/inviting contributions issue, but do individuals jws in effect pay for the publications they give out?
if so, is that only for their magazines or for hardback books as well?
how is this organised, please?.
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Gander
I never paid a cent to the Kingdom Hall fund through my decades of attendance. The moment the donation arrangement began, I began receiving literature completely free. "You have received free, give free" is my motto. Of course, I have since stopped giving the literature freely as I refuse to be the vector for the mental infection of new inocent vulnerable individuals.
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Jewish Holidays
by moomanchu in.
since jw,s cannot celebrate "christian holidays" can they celebrate jewish holidays.
i asked my mom this question never got an answer.. jesus was at the temple for the feast of the dedication for starters.. thoughts
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Gander
My goodness... read on in v.13 and 14 (NWT):
13 Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer, but rather make this YOUR decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or a cause for tripping. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is defiled in itself; only where a man considers something to be defiled, to him it is defiled.
Sounds awfully permissive (read: loving) to view things this way. Surely isn't what the elders do is it? It doesn't provide a sound basis in the Bible for all of the rules that have been created by the men of this organization. -
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May 7, 06 WT Study - Invalid Baptism
by Gander inas the study went on i began to think about the baptism annulment letters i have seen people composing on this board.
what if you just told everyone you never dedicated yourself to jehovah?.
of course they would call you a liar for having said yes to the two questions during the baptism talk.
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Gander
I was 13 myself. I know for a fact I never dedicated myself in prayer. I distinctly remember viewing the entire organization as a system that I had to "work" to get where I wanted to be. Baptism was simply one step in working the system. I think this attitude in myself springs from the overly legal structure of the organization where there is more emphasis on rules and orderliness than on love and personal relationships. Even the fact that I still refer to it as the "organization" shows this. They aren't the church or the fellowship, they are the organization or the society. Form is more important than function here I have come to learn. How sad.
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May 7, 06 WT Study - Invalid Baptism
by Gander inas the study went on i began to think about the baptism annulment letters i have seen people composing on this board.
what if you just told everyone you never dedicated yourself to jehovah?.
of course they would call you a liar for having said yes to the two questions during the baptism talk.
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Gander
As the study went on I began to think about the baptism annulment letters I have seen people composing on this board. What if you just told everyone you never dedicated yourself to Jehovah?
Of course they would call you a liar for having said yes to the two questions during the baptism talk. But then, it wouldn't be a DFing offense since you weren't really dedicated and therefore couldn't be DFed. Afterall, baptism is just the public sign of dedication. If you state that you were never dedicated then you are free.
[END OF FANCIFUL DAYDREAMING] -
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WHY?
by LaCatolica inforgive me all, but i'm trying to understand things about the jws.
why do they have to go door to door?.
why are they so manipulated brainwashed by the wts?.
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Gander
>> Why do JWs take the Bible so literally for some things and then symbolically when it's convenient to them?
Well, you answered your own question there I am afraid. Because it is convenient for them.