I think your experience is very telling. You can challenge the idea of God and the Bible-that's ok-just dont DARE question the organization. I think that this underlines the point that the JWs are worshipping the organization and not God. Questioning God is not a threat, but give them any challenge to the WT authority and you are OUTA THERE!
JWdaughter
JoinedPosts by JWdaughter
-
23
The best way to debate JW's without being labeled an apostate
by cookiemaster inhey guys!
here's what i found to be the best way (for me at least) to debate jw's without earning the laber of apostate.
this is mostly valid when debating jw's that don't know you personally, but it could help with those that do too.
-
-
-
13
A public thank you to Joe Grundy
by Pams girl ini have been going through the most terrible time these past 4 weeks, which has nothing to do with the jw, and everything to do with being abandoned with anxiety, panic and agoraphobia, and a new diagnoses of an illness called pmdd, which robbed me of my career, and it seems, my marriage, as my husband has moved out and left me with our son.
this man, this "stranger", jumped in his car to offer me support, and travelled 2 hours to be with me, despite what was going on with him, just be with me for a few hours and try to help.
what an amazing selfless act.
-
-
JWdaughter
Pam, I'm glad you had someone there for you when you needed it the most. Joe was a great friend to you. Having been on this board for many years, I am happy to say that he is in some very good company.
Thanks Joe Grundy!
Pam, I hope that your troubles resolve soon and that this present crisis is soon just a distant memory. My best to your and your child.
M.
-
8
How known child abusers are dealt with in other organizations.
by JWdaughter ini was recently reading of the dunblane school massacres (scotland) and the perpetrator was one who was 'suspected' of child abuse.
he was reported to police and after the revelations that the scout organization knew of him, he was "blacklisted".
later, in another area, he tried to become a leader again-and his blacklisting held and he was not allowed.. anyway, the guy was a creep and eventually a murderer.
-
-
JWdaughter
Yeah, that the gossip mill runs rampant if you let a boy touch your breast or smoke a cigarette or play an inappropriate song at your wedding, but you touch your own daughters breast while she is sleeping and suddenly, they are silent.
Stuff that matters, is hidden. Which is exactly the kind of thing that SHOULD NOT be hidden, while most of the nonsense that folks are hounded about and shamed about in the org are pretty minor stuff in the grand scheme of things.
It is a twisted system.
-
8
How known child abusers are dealt with in other organizations.
by JWdaughter ini was recently reading of the dunblane school massacres (scotland) and the perpetrator was one who was 'suspected' of child abuse.
he was reported to police and after the revelations that the scout organization knew of him, he was "blacklisted".
later, in another area, he tried to become a leader again-and his blacklisting held and he was not allowed.. anyway, the guy was a creep and eventually a murderer.
-
-
JWdaughter
The guy who abused Conti should not have even been in the cong. anymore. He should not have been in field service with anyone, much less a vulnerable child in a difficult home situation.
-
8
How known child abusers are dealt with in other organizations.
by JWdaughter ini was recently reading of the dunblane school massacres (scotland) and the perpetrator was one who was 'suspected' of child abuse.
he was reported to police and after the revelations that the scout organization knew of him, he was "blacklisted".
later, in another area, he tried to become a leader again-and his blacklisting held and he was not allowed.. anyway, the guy was a creep and eventually a murderer.
-
-
JWdaughter
I actually can see why if a person is not CONVICTED that they would not want to spread anything that could be construed as gossip around. It is interesting though that the WT gossip system knows of all kinds of 'moral' failings (may or may not lead to DFing) but they think it real important to keep the child abusers privacy rights intact.
This was about banning people from an organization that have not been 'convicted' of anything. They KNOW they have these child abusers and have deigned to be judge and jury for all these years leaving the masses of JWs vulnerable. NOTHING has ever stopped them from saying "you are no longer welcome to step foot in a kingdom hall. You will never have any privilege, including being a publisher or in TMS. They allow anyone in there except for folks who are 'apostate' and willing to talk about it or who have exhibited some violent tendency in front of the congregation. Child abusers fit right in, they play the game, they don't threaten the organization's peace of mind.
They should have a no tolerance stance just as that boy scout group did. There is no obligation for them to forgive or accept repentence on the behalf of God or the children.
-
8
How known child abusers are dealt with in other organizations.
by JWdaughter ini was recently reading of the dunblane school massacres (scotland) and the perpetrator was one who was 'suspected' of child abuse.
he was reported to police and after the revelations that the scout organization knew of him, he was "blacklisted".
later, in another area, he tried to become a leader again-and his blacklisting held and he was not allowed.. anyway, the guy was a creep and eventually a murderer.
-
-
JWdaughter
I was recently reading of the Dunblane School Massacres (Scotland) and the perpetrator was one who was 'suspected' of child abuse. He was reported to police and after the revelations that the scout organization knew of him, he was "blacklisted". Later, in another area, he tried to become a leader again-and his blacklisting held and he was not allowed.
Anyway, the guy was a creep and eventually a murderer. My point is that no one has to accept that people can be part of an organization when they are known or even suspected abusers. JWs are not big on unconditional love and forgiveness for anyone... except apparently, those who molest children/women.
If the Scouts can have a "blacklist" than what is to stop the WT from having the same kind of thing. This guy was NEVER convicted of anything until he went and murdered a bunch of people. That certainly did not mean he was not GUILTY of all kinds of things or known to be a creep. Less than one year after becoming involved with the Scouts, he was blacklisted. No conviction-and he was not allowed to participate anymore.
I dont see the moral or religious ethic that requires known child abusers to be allowed to associate freely in a religious organization. If a nonprofit can blacklist, a church should be able to. This guy was reported to police at a time that they really don't seem to have done ANYTHING about it, yet the organization that served children did what they could to ensure the safety of the kids not only in that area, but within the entire organization of the Scouts-and their actions protected children later when he tried again to participate.
Just a thought.
-
31
life after the wtbts
by Hortensia inyou can't move forward to a new, more interesting, possibly much happier life, if you're still looking behind at the former life.. there is so much obsession on here about what the wtbts is doing, and discussing all the forms of injustice and bullshit in the wtbts, or how to bring down the wtbts.
yes, their doctrines are crazy and they are a cult and cruel to boot.
move on.
-
-
JWdaughter
33 Years for ME too!
I'm still here just out of morbid curiosity, I think. What crazy thing have they thought up now? What nutty things are they doing/saying?
-
98
Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.
by Witness 007 inlindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..
-
-
JWdaughter
I think so. He didn't want to just die, he wanted someone to remember him. He wanted others to be as miserable and messed up as he is. I really think he was a self centered jerk who played at the terrorism angle for attention. He was no devout Muslim, he seemed to crave attention and he liked to play games with people's heads. (all that fortune teller, astrology, spiritism nonsense in order to manipulate women into having sex is against Islam in uncountable ways. That abuse of the military families. . .he was always trying to be the center of the room-and no one really noticed him at all. They took like 20 years before anyone accused him of the abuse. He was a total nonentity, no matter how much he tried to get attention.
I read of the lengths he went to to give himself an alibi while his girlfriend or whoever was killing his ex wife. Its like he put a sign up that said "look at me!!!" and they let him out on bail as if he was of no account.
He was more an attention whore than a terrorist, but he was a murderous abusive one that got away with it too many times. And now he has what he wants because we are talking about him, speculating about him and his dreams came true.
-
98
Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.
by Witness 007 inlindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..
-
-
JWdaughter
I know people who lived in Iraq before Saddam was taken down. It wasn't a paradise. For most people though, it was home and they had normal lives, business, infrastructure. It now truly is a hell. All the events are connected, of course(Saddam started it), but when your abuse never came from your peoplel but came from the people who were 'saving' you from them, I imagine it colors your world a little differently. I have a friend whose family is in ISIS territory and life jst went from the bad of the war and occupation and the total corruption of Iraqi politics to a new level of horror with ISIS-who is saving them from the western forces. I think Iraq has had enough saving, and I imagine that Afghani's are pretty much done with the interferance too (which began long before our interventions in Iraq).
I absolutely do not justify anything that man did. Crazy and insane situations are going to create some extra crazy people.. He was clearly insane. He gave himself an excuse, but I don't hear anyone defending anything he did. It is indefensible. He has been harming people at least since he got to Australia. There may be a reason he was a refugee from Iraq that speaks to criminal behavior predating his being a refugee. I think they will find more about his background in Iraq.
-
98
Is is Muslim terrorist cafe seige Sydney...hundreds of hostages! looks bad.
by Witness 007 inlindt chocalate cafe martin place in city people pressed against the glass with hands up...this will not end well..
-
-
JWdaughter
I think he was ostensibly Muslim, but he was a Muslim who would have been executed in Iran or KSA for blasphemy and witchcraft because of his own claims-over a decade ago. Those practices are considered apostate to hardliners and are capital offenses. The first thing we know about him other than him being a refugee is that he was doing astrology, claiming mystical powers, witchcraft, etc. He called himself 'shaikh' something. That doesn't make him a cleric. I have not seen any reports that he had any kind of mosque or following, but only that he ran a spiritistic practice, is thought to have arranged to have his wife killed, abused military families, is under indictment for sexuallly abusing a bunch of women (while playing at the mystic bit). He was a fraud and a con man, jerk and a criminal who knew the whole world was coming down on him.He was desperate and wanted someone to take note of him and he knew that his life was effectively over with all the charges coming down on him. He was nobodies hero and was looking at a lifetime in prison.
ISIS may claim him, they may not, but I think that he only used the Islam bit for some more attention at his last hurrah. Otherwise he will just be a forgotten loser.
Do I think he was livid about the military in Afghanistan? Yep, and it likely informed his decision to play the jihadist game. He was a refugee and he knows what kind of hell the people are being put through because of military intervention by the west. And I am sure that in his head it is ALL the responsibility of the west. And now, after 20 hours of this standoff, and dying in it, he got what he wanted-finally. Attention.