Interesting question MuadDib, I have wondered the same, except I generally imagine a canoe filled with kangaroos and koalas paddling for their lives.
Having a full list of disfellowshipping requirements is a good place to start.
What is in the elders book, can I see it?
Why doesn't any other religion or scientist think Babylon was destroyed in 607?
How come Russell and Rutherford said we should worship Jesus but now the WTS says we cant?
Who was the F&D slave that gave Russell all his knowledge?
If the Tetragrammaton was never in the New Testament why does the WTS think they should change the words in the bible?
Why is God going to kill everyone that has never seen a JW?
jwfacts
JoinedPosts by jwfacts
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16
Post questions a study should ask before joining the Org.
by JH in.
what questions should a study ask before joining the jw org?
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jwfacts
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The REAL issue with blood
by jwfacts inthere is a number of things written about blood at the moment, but what is the heart of the issue.. it is not doctrine.
religions are able to make up any doctrine they feel like.
most christians can see that the jw blood doctrine is unscriptural, but individuals will never agree on doctrine.. it is not the lack of logic in the current jw stance even though it is illogical to disallow blood transfusions, but allow blood component transfusions.
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jwfacts
Garybuss,
That is an interesting comment. I had thought that they may drop the blood issue completely, but your comment indicates otherwise. An illogical issue is the best way to test a persons loyalty. If a person follows despite seeing inconsistencies with it, they are true followers.
My parents know the blood issue is not quite right, but are waiting on Jehovah to fix things. That proves them to be true organisation people, no wonder they are Circuit overseers. -
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What is God's true organization he is using? if this not it, then point me
by amommy ini have been a jw all my life, my sister and i are now in our late twenties and are so unhappy and after desparate attempts to keep up meeting attendance are not spiritually motivated.
we in last few weeks have found some very disturbing things in our search such as the un involvement.
after research on these things and use of the wt library the society speaks for it's self on these issues calling the un the "disgusting thing" that the book of daniel spoke about(wt 85' para.
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jwfacts
Welcome amommy.
Here is something that really hit home for me. When Jesus asked Peter if he would leave him what did Peter say?
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Where will I go???? (That is the answer every JW will give) That is the wrong answer.
Peter said "WHOM Will I go to?" John 6:68
The answer is Christianity is about following Jesus, not any organisation. Ask you husband the same question and see whether he says where or whom.
I would definitely agree with everyone that said to read Franz' In search of Christian Freedom. In case you don't have enough to read there is some information at
http://jwfacts.com/index_files/slave.htm
that contains some ideas that I found interesting. History clearly shows there was no organisation like JW's before Rutherford changed it in the 1930's, and definitely none even remotely like it before Russell started it in the 1800's.
If your husband does not like to read apostate information then recommend he reads the Studies in the Scriptures as he will soon see that the religion Russell started was widely different than today, participating in much paganist teachings and substantial reliance on wrong date predictions. -
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THE NEWS IS WAY WAY WAY BIGGER
by ffoeg inthe place is in the wilderness, the thing acting as a restraint is the face of the serpent.. .
how does someone gain access to the actual temple of the god and further yet, how is he able to lift himself up above everyone who is called god?.
god's spirit-directed organisation ---- (the man) ----------------- a god?.
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jwfacts
I know of several annuled baptisms. Generally it is on the basis that the person did not know what they were doing at the time. For instance my auntie gambled after her baptism. She claimed she did not know it was wrong. Rather than d/f her they annulled her baptism and then rebaptised her.
I only know of one case where there was an anullment without rebaptism. The person was certifiably mentally insane and had continued committing immorality after her baptism, so they just annulled it and let her be.
In my case it is highly unlikely to be allowed as i have been a JW for so long. I have spoken to the bethel legal department and they believe I am just wanting to do it out of convenience rather than scriptural principles, but they have not seem my reasoning yet. I feel I have considerable grounds and if I succeed I will post my letter.
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The REAL issue with blood
by jwfacts inthere is a number of things written about blood at the moment, but what is the heart of the issue.. it is not doctrine.
religions are able to make up any doctrine they feel like.
most christians can see that the jw blood doctrine is unscriptural, but individuals will never agree on doctrine.. it is not the lack of logic in the current jw stance even though it is illogical to disallow blood transfusions, but allow blood component transfusions.
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jwfacts
It is easy to make broad generalisations, and by belonging to a group believing in absolute truth JW generalisations are common.
There is no doubt that blood is dangerous, every operation is dangerous to some degree. I would not choose to have blood if at all possible. However cases exist where blood is essential.
As TD showed, a JW will state that many doctors will operate without blood. That is an irrelevant arguement that sidesteps the issue. Of course non blood treatment is preferable to blood treatment in most cases. But not EVERY case.
YaddaYadda, I know many who feel that way.
Another thing used to justify changes is that Jehovah knows best at the time. My auntie said the other day that Jehovah directed the change in regards to Organ transplants because in the 1970's organ transplants were too dangerous, but by the 1980's the were safe enough for JW's. Jehovah was protecting his people!!! There is no end to illogical reasoning by people attempting to justify their faith. -
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The REAL issue with blood
by jwfacts inthere is a number of things written about blood at the moment, but what is the heart of the issue.. it is not doctrine.
religions are able to make up any doctrine they feel like.
most christians can see that the jw blood doctrine is unscriptural, but individuals will never agree on doctrine.. it is not the lack of logic in the current jw stance even though it is illogical to disallow blood transfusions, but allow blood component transfusions.
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jwfacts
There is a number of things written about blood at the moment, but what is the heart of the issue.
It is not doctrine. Religions are able to make up any doctrine they feel like. Most Christians can see that the JW blood doctrine is unscriptural, but individuals will never agree on doctrine.
It is not the lack of logic in the current JW stance even though it is illogical to disallow blood transfusions, but allow blood component transfusions. It is hypocritical to allow blood fraction transfusions but disallow the users of blood fraction transfusion to donate blood.
It is not the history. It is illogical to say a doctrine has come from Jehovah, but to have allowed blood, then not allowed blood or any fractions, to now allowing most blood fractions.
The issue is this. The Watchtower promotes misinformation about the risks of refusing blood. Delibrate withholding of information to lead people to a wrong conclusion is leading to death.
Some of my JW family believe that blood transfusions never saves lives, in fact blood transfusions can kill people. This is because the Watchtower has provided biased information. There are some situations when a blood transfusion is medically proven to be absolutely necessary to keep a person alive. A JW should be given the full story in order to make an informed decision.
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WTBS article prove 587/586 BC fall of Babylon
by crazies inlabashi-marduk: (9 months) succeeded by nabonidus
(insight volume 1 p.453 chronology; watchtower 1965 january 1 p.29)
evil-merodach: 560 bce562 bce (2 years)
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jwfacts
It's great to welcome another newbie crazies. It is a good point and ironic that the Watchtower publications can be used to show 607 is not supportable.I have put together a table to try to simplify the concept.
Watchtower 1965 January 1 p.29
“Amel-Marduk ( Evil-merodach) as the oldest son succeeded Nebuchadnezzar to the throne in 581 B.C.E . He did a kindness to one of the Judean captives, by which kindness he unwittingly carried out Jehovah’s purpose. Second Kings 25:27-30 states: “It came about in the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin the king of Judah, in the twelfth month [in 580 B.C.E.], . . . Evil-merodach the king of Babylon, in the year of his becoming king, raised up the head of Jehoiachin the king of Judah out of the house of detention; and he began to speak good things with him, and then put his throne higher than the thrones of the kings that were with him in Babylon. And he took off his prison garments; and he ate bread constantly before him all the days of his life.” Jehoiachin (or Jeconiah) had seven sons in Babylonia, including Shealtiel, whose nominal son Zerubbabel became governor of rebuilt Jerusalem, and through whose line of descent Jesus Christ came.—1 Chron. 3:17-19; Hag. 1:1; 2:23; Ezra 5:1, 2; Matt. 1:12.
Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years , which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk , a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months . Nabonidus , who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E .”
This article shows that the Watchtower accepts the scholarly view of the Babylonian line of kings. Nebuchadnezzar was succeeded by:
· E- Evil-merodach 2 years
<!-- · Neriglissar 4 years
<!-- · Labashi-Marduk 9 months
<!--. Nabonidus until 539 B.C.
Where the 1965 Watchtower differs with history is that it says Nebuchadnezzar gave up the throne in 581 B.C. History shows it was in 562 B.C. Therefore the two timelines are:
Watchtower Rulership
Watchtower 1965 timeline
Historical Rulership
Historical timeline
Nebuchadnezzar
43 years
624 – 581
43 years
605 – 562
Evil-merodach
2 years
581 – 579
2 years
562 – 560
Neriglissar
4 years
579 – 575
4 years
560 – 556
Labashi-Marduk
9 months
575 – 575
9 months
556 – 556
Nabonidus
implies 36 years
575 – 539
17 years
556 – 539
What is interesting about this is that to use the Watchtower timeline Nabonidus would have to have ruled for 36 years. Yet the Society actually admits he only ruled for 17 years.
Watchtower 1968 August 15 p. 491 The Book of Truthful Historical Dates
“17 Other investigators say this: “The Nabunaid Chronicle . . . states that Sippar fell to Persian forces VII/14/17 [Footnotes]“VII/14/17”: The 7th Hebrew month Tishri, 14th day, 17th year of Nabonidus’ reign . (Oct. 10, 539), that Babylon fell VII/16/17 (Oct. 12), and that Cyrus entered Babylon VIII/3/17 (Oct. 29). This fixes the end of Nabunaid’s reign and the beginning of the reign of Cyrus.”
Insight volume 2 p.457 Nabonidus
“Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.). He was given to literature, art, and religion.
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SEND WATCHTOWER A MESSAGE - Keep clicking on this link
by DevonMcBride in.
if they see a large amount of hits on their blood brochure during the next several weeks, it will send a message to watchtower that we are aware of kerry's article.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/index.htm
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jwfacts
I think it is a good idea, and to click through the article to indicate you are searching through the info.
I regularly look at the stats on my site to see what areas are of most interest.
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THE NEWS IS WAY WAY WAY BIGGER
by ffoeg inthe place is in the wilderness, the thing acting as a restraint is the face of the serpent.. .
how does someone gain access to the actual temple of the god and further yet, how is he able to lift himself up above everyone who is called god?.
god's spirit-directed organisation ---- (the man) ----------------- a god?.
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jwfacts
ffoeg welcome to the site and a great post.
I love having something new highlighted and I am amazed that I had never thought of such an obvious point before. Countless Christians are currently being persecuted for the name of Jesus, but you are correct, Jehovah's Witnesses are not included in that group.
You certainly gave yourself good reason to get d/f, I dont think the committee had to think hard about your case. I too have just lodged a letter with my elders saying at 16 I did not understand the consequences of dedicating my life to an organisation rather than just to God, Jesus and the HS. I have requested to have my baptism annulled on that basis.
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Blood and sacrifice alternative view point
by Spectrum infrom the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.
it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.
acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.
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jwfacts
I have never had an answer from a JW as to why if Acts is so important that the part about food sacrificed to idols is not binding on us but blood is. (As shown in the comments above Paul clearly shows that this was not meant to be any more then a law to avoid stumbling) Does the WTS have an answer of any sort for this?