Posts by jwfacts

43

There Is No 'Heavenly Hope'!

by The Searcher in

propitiatory sacrifice.

this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

" (1 john 4:10).

jwfacts

Isaiah 51:6 "Raise YOUR eyes to the heavens themselves, and look at the earth beneath. For the very heavens must be dispersed in fragments just like smoke, and like a garment the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants themselves will die like a mere gnat. But as for my salvation, it will prove to be even to time indefinite, and my own righteousness will not be shattered."

Psalm 102:25-26 "Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself, And the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn."

So is it going to last forever, or will it wear out and perish? You are taking the Scriptures you want to believe, and dismissing the ones that you don't.

As the Watchtower shows, Ps 37 is considered to be a poetic promise that the Jews would retain possession of the promised land.

"Since Psalm 37:29 has been translated "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever," does it refer simply to Israel's permanently occupying the Promised Land?" Watchtower 1986 Jan 1 p.31

89

"Snakes will eat dirt in the new order."

by Comatose in

i was talking with a jw i've known a long time and the topic of da new order came up.

she mentioned how nice it will be when all animals are at peace.

i asked why they had camouflage and defensive and offensive weapons if they were to always get along?

jwfacts

They too think snakes will eat dirt in the new order. /facepalm

Wow.

43

There Is No 'Heavenly Hope'!

by The Searcher in

propitiatory sacrifice.

this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

" (1 john 4:10).

jwfacts

Adam was given explicit instructions regarding taking care of the earth and also to populate it. He was also warned that if he sinned he would die - no other cause of death given. His death was as a result of his sinning - according to the Scriptures we are discussing.

It simply says he was to populate the earth, and would die if he ate of the fruit. That does not mean he was to live for infinity on earth. Once the earth was populated, any number of other instructions could have been given. You have made up a doctrine based on what you want to believe, not based on anything that was actually written. To claim humans will live forever, and ever, and ever, and ever ... and then a bit more on this planet ... shows total ignorance as to how the universe operates.

43

There Is No 'Heavenly Hope'!

by The Searcher in

propitiatory sacrifice.

this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

" (1 john 4:10).

jwfacts

Matthew 8:11 "But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens ."

Matthew 5:11-12 "Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens ; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU .

Luke 16:22 "Now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of Abraham."

Hebrews 11:13-16 "In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven . Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them."

43

There Is No 'Heavenly Hope'!

by The Searcher in

propitiatory sacrifice.

this is how christ's death is described three times in the scriptures.. the apostle john wrote, "the love is in this respect, not that we have loved god, but that he loved us and sent forth his son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

" (1 john 4:10).

jwfacts

Searcher - If Adam had not sinned, what would be the outcome for every single human being on the earth? Everlasting life on a paradise earth - end of story - because that's exactly what Jehovah intended!

Where does it state that in the Bible?

26

'Apostates want to draw people after themselves'--what are they really implying?

by sd-7 in

when jws say this, what are they really saying?

i was pondering this recently, and i was thinking...what they're really trying to imply is simple:.

apostates are thus accused of attempting to be cult leaders.. because the idea is that since they're not getting people to follow christ, but follow themselves, then they want their 'victims'' belief system to be centered around an individual, following that person's directions.

jwfacts

There are a handful of "apostates" that have sent up religions, and that comment could apply to. It is ironic though, since the Governing Body are trying to draw people after themselves, and successfully so with the preaching work.

Far and away, most apostates are not drawing people after themselves, just helping people leave the Watchtower religion.

36

Why does an Omni... God need Jesus and the 144,000 co-rulers?

by jwfacts in

at the thread about jaracz steve2 made the following interesting comment.

by now, ted should be finding his heavenly posting a routinized bore: 4 years and still counting.

he will have chaffed at the notion that all decisions are made by jehovah god who consults no one and who brooks no questioning or independent thinking.

jwfacts

Who judges them? Quislings who got a nifty deal to turn on their fellow man! 144,000 of them.

Its amazingly conceited. I could never understand why the 144,000 could be granted immortality but the great crowd and the rest of humanity could not. The 144,000 are just "sinners" like the rest of Adam's offspring.

18

Connection Between Captives of a Concept and the Governing Bodys New Light?

by Cameron_Don in

jw
friends

some have wondered if captives of a concept had anything to do with why the governing body changed their interpretation of the most important scripture in their theology - matthew 24:45-47. of course there is no way of knowing.

but since some of the changes deal with matters that are brought out in the book, it does seem fair to wonder.

the book makes the major point that according to their former interpretation the only way the society could be gods faithful and discreet slave organization today is if they had received jesus belongings appointment in 1919. .

jwfacts

Perhaps you are making the Watchtower Society more cunning and invincible, Don!

New doctrine have often come out in response to things written, such as by Franz and Don, and comments now on the internet. The Watchtower is becoming more cunning as a result, but not invicible. The new teachings often end up more convoluted than the old ones. The structure of Watchtower doctrine is too flimsy to ever make logical or sustainable without massive upheaval.

36

Why does an Omni... God need Jesus and the 144,000 co-rulers?

by jwfacts in

at the thread about jaracz steve2 made the following interesting comment.

by now, ted should be finding his heavenly posting a routinized bore: 4 years and still counting.

he will have chaffed at the notion that all decisions are made by jehovah god who consults no one and who brooks no questioning or independent thinking.

jwfacts

Terry are you ok? Did your computer get hacked?

moomanchu good points. Jesus can provide a human perspective. And why are so many kings needed - 1 for every 100,000 people or so? If an angel could kill 185,000 in one night it would seem spirit creatures are more efficient than humans, not less.

Jehovah is not omniscient if he needs human rulers to deliver personally their experience to him, and not omnipotent if he needs help ruling.

36

Why does an Omni... God need Jesus and the 144,000 co-rulers?

by jwfacts in

at the thread about jaracz steve2 made the following interesting comment.

by now, ted should be finding his heavenly posting a routinized bore: 4 years and still counting.

he will have chaffed at the notion that all decisions are made by jehovah god who consults no one and who brooks no questioning or independent thinking.

jwfacts

2 + 2 = 5 - And he is getting older, so he probably will not want to work as hard as he use to.

I agree with the other comments, as the sovereignty issue was the first Watchtower doctrine that I seriously questioned. Why would anyone listen to Satan over Jehovah. Jehovah had every right to destroy Satan, and no one could have rightfully questioned that action. Or as Comatose said, " He then could easily have wiped Satans existence from the minds of all spirit creatures. "

It also contradicts the story of the potter and the clay.

Jeremiah 18:5 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 6 "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.