jwfacts

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Posts by jwfacts

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  77

  Heavenly Gates Closed in 1935… Re-opened in 2007

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since 1935, the watchtower had been categorically teaching (for over 6 decades) that the heavenly calling of the 144,000 anointed christians had ceased in 1935. this teaching was especially significant to older jws (especially those who spent much of their lives serving the watchtower as pioneers, elders, missionaries, bethelites, etc.

  ) because many of these would eventually turn their attention to the aging governing body members and feel a sense of relief knowing that the end was drawing ever so near.

  in other words, as more governing body members (who were born before 1935) passed away, the closer they would get to their long-awaited reward of surviving armageddon and living on paradise earth where they would finally hug grass-eating lions near a waterfall while marveling at snow-peaked mountains in the distance.

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  jwfacts

  Ratigan - "I tell you that those 11,000 are not anointed by any means."

  Who are you to judge? You are walking on shaky ground, since most if not all the current Governing Body claim to have been anointed after 1935, and are part of the 11,000.
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  4

  When and what book did the Great Crowd go from heaven to earth.

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think in the finish mystery rutherford (actually franz) still wrote the great crowd was in heaven.

  so when and what books did the switch take place and the great crowd become on earth???

  .

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  jwfacts

  It is commonly stated that Rutherford closed the heavenly calling in 1935, as heaven was running out of room. This is only partially correct. With the number of Jehovah's Witnesses increasing, Rutherford had to claim the calling for the 144,000 ruling class was near completion. However, since the Great Crowd (or Great Multitude) was also said to be heavenly, an unlimited number of Jehovah's Witnesses could still go to heaven as part of the Great Crowd in heaven.

  Rutherford had been preaching that the "other sheep" were the "millions now living who will never die"; people not associated with the organisation that were still worthy of salvation into the paradise earth.

  “Sheep represent all the peoples of the nations, not spirit-begotten but disposed toward righteousness, who mentally acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Lord and who are looking for and hoping for a better time under his reign.” Watch Tower 1923 Oct 15 p.309

  These righteous ones of the nations were the sheep that were to live on earth.

  “Jehonadab represented or foreshadowed that class of people now on the earth [who] are out of harmony with Satan’s organization, who take their stand on the side of righteousness, and are the ones whom the Lord will preserve during the time of Armageddon, take them through that trouble, and give them everlasting life on the earth. These constitute the ‘sheep’ class." Vindication (1931)

  It was not until 1934 that it started to be proclaimed that to live on earth baptism into the organisation was necessary.

  "In 1934, The Watchtower made it clear that Christians with an earthly hope should make a dedication to Jehovah and be baptized." Watchtower 2001 May 15 pp.14-15

  This led up to the new teaching in 1935 that the Great Crowd and the Other Sheep were actually the same class, and as such, the Great Crowd were on earth, not heaven.

  "In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioners, J. F. Rutherford presented Scriptural proof that the modern-day “other sheep” are identical with that “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9." Watchtower 2001 May 15 pp.14-15

  It appears that moving the Great Crowd to earth was to support Rutherford's concept of narrow salvation. The most effective way to rapidly grow Watchtower followers was making survival at Armageddon contingent on being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. With anointed Jehovah's Witnesses going to heaven and a Great Crowd of Jehovah's Witnesses being Armageddon's earthly survivors, the only option for worldly people became eternal destruction. This concept worked; between 1935 and 1975 the Watchtower Society was one of the fastest growing religions on earth.
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  7

  Largest mass genocide in worlds history

  by DS211 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jws we are taught that only jws will survive armageddon.

  upon really meditating on this how can any jw believe this?

  the good news means that 99% of the worlds population will be wiped out?

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  jwfacts

  It is ironic that one of the main points that a JW uses for why they are the truth is that they don't go to war. Yet the Bible is filled with examples of God's people conducting warfare and genocide on non-believers. No one has been as brutal as God himself though, wiping out virtually the entire planet in the flood, and then again billions at Armageddon. How do they justify it - it is not genocide if the people deserve it. Sounds like any megalomaniac to me.
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  25

  When was the significance of the year 1919 first stated?

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  when was it first introduced that the watchtower organisation was chosen in 1919?

  i expect this was something first published under rutherford, as a way of making his leadership more important than that of russell, but would like some evidence to back that claim up.. .

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  jwfacts

  Thank you everyone for the quotes , and the summary Moggy Lover.

  I do not think the quotes prove what I had been trying to, that Rutherford was trying to phase Russell out of the picture. I seems moreso that he was trying to create support for his own legitimacy, particularly with the Elijah/Elisha parallel. He also needed to give credence to why 1914 failed and why he was changing so much doctrine, and so saying they were not chosen until 1919 helps there. Not that it really cleared things up, since most of his changes came after 1919. Furthermore, 1919 helps differentiate himself from the breakaway Bible Student groups, but that too is conjecture, as the quotes don't explain the underlying intention.

  It seems that the change in the Faithful and Discreet Slave teaching by the current Governing Body in 2012, that the Slave was not chosen until 1919, more directly cuts ties with Russell, than Rutherford had tried to do.

  Phizzy, you make a good point that the doctrine is unproven and unexplained. If you see the heading "How is 1919 Derived?" at Faithful and Discreet Slave, it shows the reasoning that the Watchtower uses to arrive at 1919. However, it is a contradictory and illogical process, and rarely mentioned, and so you are correct to say that the doctrine is a failure that undermines the whole house of cards.
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  25

  When was the significance of the year 1919 first stated?

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  when was it first introduced that the watchtower organisation was chosen in 1919?

  i expect this was something first published under rutherford, as a way of making his leadership more important than that of russell, but would like some evidence to back that claim up.. .

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  jwfacts

  When was it first introduced that the Watchtower Organisation was chosen in 1919? I expect this was something first published under Rutherford, as a way of making his leadership more important than that of Russell, but would like some evidence to back that claim up.
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  8

  Deceptive WT Quotes

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are there other wts quotes, such as the following, that clearly demonstrate deception (cover up) on the part of the organization.. "jehovah's witnesses have consistently shown from the scriptures that the year 1914 marked the beginning of this world's time of the end and that "the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men" has drawn near.

  " watchtower 1993 aug 15 p.9.

  "the "time of the end," a period of one hundred and fifteen (115) years, from a.d. 1799 to a.d. 1914, is particularly marked in the scriptures.

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  jwfacts

  There are quite a number at http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/misquotes-deception-lies.php
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  167

  this site sucks! its just a buncha athiest on soap boxes.

  by crossquestions6995 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this site is not a healthy forum for discussion or healing.

  its an arena for jaded athiests to bash anything christian or god related.

  yes, i know the jw's lied to us about god and the truth.

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  jwfacts

  There are a lot of different threads on JWN on all range of topics. The majority of threads are not discussions between Atheists and Christians, with many being offers of help to those that are struggling. If a topic is not of interest, or is offensive, there is no need to read or contribute to it.
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  72

  C,O's,D,O's from down under...who remembers??

  by karter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  wolford and betty john,nice loveing couple,always loved children.. arther and tinnie roderson, nice couple he passed away some years ago too young from cancer.. wiakato and hine gray couldn't ask for better people.. jack teesie ..single guy would never go to a single sisters place for dinner even if she had children apperantly a bad look.. joe sleighman and wife nice couple were d.o's leaft and joined our side.. sandy pannell and wife...he reminded me of bill clinton always love to look down from the stage and wave his left finger at the congro....never liked him.. han's hubler,nuff said has been a few threads started about him.. there is many more.. karter..

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  jwfacts

  Terry Grundy, Conrad Mack, Blackstock, Vin Toole, Hubler, Bromich.
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  12

  What ever happened too.....

  by problemaddict in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...the real jw apologists?

  not the ones that pop on here and have a go with the athiests, but the ones that defended their posision at least with some form of scholarly notion and education.

  you know.... greg stafford (last seen being clearly an apostate....but not getting disfellowshipped for starting another religion.....odd) site abandon for months.. jehovah.to - the haven for the learned with such heavies as hal flemmings, solomon landers, and heinz schmidt.

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  jwfacts

  jehovahsjudgment.co.uk is still running. There is no new information though.
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  95

  Emergency relief fund for the Philippines. How will it work.

  by joe134cd in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was just thinking it will be interesting to see how the wts emergency relief fund will operate in the philippines.

  ok it worked well with the storm in florida, with cashing in on the insurance cheques.

  sorry to generalize, but americans have the disposable income, and the insurance polices for things like this - a thing the wtbts finds very attractive.

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  jwfacts

  Jehovah will help our brothers as he always has.

  Well, except for the 27 he overlooked that died.