jwfacts

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Posts by jwfacts

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  79

  What's a word that describes the way Witnesses behave as a group?

  by paul from cleveland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can't recall the word that describes a group that keeps to itself like the witnesses do.

  i thought it was "insular" but i don't think that's the one i'm looking for after reading the definition.

  i remember an elder using the word "clannish" and that has the proper definition but it reminds me of a group of elves.

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  jwfacts

  Instead of the term Watchtower coins of unity, the more appropriate term is conformity.
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  143

  Fidel Castro and the WT

  by Hecce in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am going to engage on a trip to the past and share with you some of the matters that marked the beginning of the jws persecution in cuba.

  you will be surprised that the pattern that was followed is very similar to what happened in other dictatorial countries.. in the cuban case, i am going to surprise you and tell you that like what happened with hitler; the wt was partially responsible for their clash and confrontation with the cuban government.

  during the early 60s the revolution was fighting for survival and they were willing and ready to demolish any perceived enemy to their cause.. a prime example was their war against the catholic church that was the most influential religious entity in the country; it took the supreme leader only a few public discourses to send the vast majority of clergy packing and back to their country, in this case spain.. the jehovah’s witnesses were an insignificant minority but they over estimated their importance and displayed a belligerent attitude, it was known that this was a us based religion and an easy target to connect them with the cia.

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  jwfacts

  This is very interesting. I visited Cuba last July. How do you have so much insight in the situation?
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  116

  News Flash: New Reveal Article

  by Sugar Shane in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  less than an hour old:.

  https://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-child-sex-abusers-get-reinstated-as-jehovahs-witnesses/.

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  jwfacts

  The church exist under us constitutional provisions. It does not exist to help prosecute crimes or to provide physical protection for children. That is the duty of Caesar.

  Exactly, there is no expectation here to prosecute crimes, but there is an ethical responsibility not to withhold information that could help "Caesar' prevent further crimes.

  The perpetrator is usually not going to come forward and confess, and a child may be under the emotional control of the abuser to be too scared to talk to the police, often under the threat from the abuser that they will kill the child's family. If the elders come to know of such a crime, they have an ethical (and in many places a legal) responsibility to report it to the police, regardless of the fears and wishes of the family and abuser.
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  41

  Toasting is Pagan - How many contradictions can fit in 2 pages, I found 5?

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower 2007 feb 15 pp.30-31 explains why jehovah's witnesses are not to toast.

  what is astounding is that for each point they then go on an explain why the point is irrelevant, yet still conclude toasting is wrong.

  what did people think when reading this?

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  jwfacts

  Great comments and very varied. It would be good to know if there has been a strategy behind the contradictory stances such as Pinatas.

  The 2007 article is so unusually presented, I would love to know the intentions of the person that wrote it. It seems like a writer that is turning apostate wants to get some people thinking, but that is probably unlikely since the article needs to go through an editing and approval process.
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  116

  News Flash: New Reveal Article

  by Sugar Shane in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  less than an hour old:.

  https://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-child-sex-abusers-get-reinstated-as-jehovahs-witnesses/.

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  jwfacts

  Repentance has very little to do with avoiding being DF'd.

  Exactly. At my first judicial committee I was not DF because I feigned repentance. That proved to me Holy Spirit was not directing the process.
  
  
• 
  116

  News Flash: New Reveal Article

  by Sugar Shane in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  less than an hour old:.

  https://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-child-sex-abusers-get-reinstated-as-jehovahs-witnesses/.

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  jwfacts

  That is excellent and needs to be shared. It highlights important points I had not fully appreciated regarding how quickly abusers can be reinstated and how not reporting has allowed some abusers to escape criminal punishment due to the statute of limitations.

  I know one of the Australian victims. Good to know he is no longer a JW and is now living a normal and happy life.
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  41

  Toasting is Pagan - How many contradictions can fit in 2 pages, I found 5?

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower 2007 feb 15 pp.30-31 explains why jehovah's witnesses are not to toast.

  what is astounding is that for each point they then go on an explain why the point is irrelevant, yet still conclude toasting is wrong.

  what did people think when reading this?

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  jwfacts

  The Watchtower 2007 Feb 15 pp.30-31 explains why Jehovah's Witnesses are not to toast. What is astounding is that for each point they then go on an explain why the point is irrelevant, yet still conclude toasting is wrong. What did people think when reading this? I would have thought it was from The Onion if I had not seen it on jw.org.

  Here is a summary of the article. We are told:

  • It is fine to wish someone good health, as Acts concludes with such a phrase
  • Toasting came from the raising of hands to God for a good outcome, though this is fine, as it was done with Solomon to the true God
  • Having pagan roots is not really an issue, as there are many similar examples that are acceptable, such as using pomegranates and wedding rings
  • Drinking wine is ok, it just should not be done as part of a pagan religious act
  • People do not toast to gods anymore, nor is toasting viewed today as a religious gesture
    

  So every reason presented as to why toasting is wrong is provided with a valid counter argument, yet the article summarises that "Nevertheless, the fact that [worldly people] do not think the matter through is no reason for true Christians to feel obliged to imitate their gestures."

  Sorry, I'm still confused, what was the reason that toasting is wrong?
  

  The final paragraph ends with the advice " Christians do not share in toasting, which has a religious background and even now can be viewed as asking ‘heaven’ for a blessing, as if seeking aid from a superhuman force." Isn't that exactly what prayer is, asking for aid from a heavenly superhuman force?

  In case you do not believe a Watchtower article would not make perfect sense, here it is word for word.

  
  

  Questions From Readers
  The Bible does not mention toasting, so why do Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid sharing in toasts?
  Toasting with a glass of wine (or another alcoholic beverage) is a long-standing and widespread practice, though details may differ from place to place. Sometimes those toasting clink their glasses together. The person offering the toast usually requests or wishes someone happiness, good health, a long life, or the like. Others sharing in the toast may voice their agreement or raise their glasses and drink some wine. For many, this seems a harmless custom or social grace, but there are good reasons why Jehovah’s Witnesses do not share in toasting.

  
  It is not because Christians do not hope that someone finds happiness and enjoys good health. In a letter to the congregations, the first-century governing body concluded with a word that can be rendered “good health to you,” “keep well,” or “fare well.” (Acts 15:29) And some true worshippers said to human kings: “Let my lord . . . live to time indefinite” or “Let the king himself live to time indefinite.”—1 Kings 1:31; Nehemiah 2:3.
  What, though, is the background of the custom of toasting? The Watchtower of January 1, 1968, quoted The Encyclopædia Britannica (1910), Volume 13, page 121: “The custom of drinking ‘health’ to the living is most probably derived from the ancient religious rite of drinking to the gods and the dead. The Greeks and Romans at meals poured out libations to their gods, and at ceremonial banquets drank to them and to the dead.” The encyclopedia added: “Intimately associated with these quasi-sacrificial drinking customs must have ever been the drinking to the health of living men.”

  
  Is that still valid? The 1995 International Handbook on Alcohol and Culture says: “[Toasting] is probably a secular vestige of ancient sacrificial libations in which a sacred liquid was offered to the gods: blood or wine in exchange for a wish, a prayer summarized in the words ‘long life!’ or ‘to your health!’”

  
  Granted, the fact that an object, a design, or a practice has roots or parallels in ancient false religion does not always rule such out for a true worshipper. Consider the pomegranate. A noted Bible encyclopedia reports: “The pomegranate seems also to have been used as a holy symbol in heathen religions.” Nevertheless, God had pomegranates made of thread put on the hem of the high priest’s garment, and pomegranates decorated the copper pillars of Solomon’s temple. (Exodus 28:33; 2 Kings 25:17) Moreover, the wedding ring at one time had religious significance. Yet, most people today do not know that, considering a wedding ring a mere evidence that someone is married.

  
  What about using wine in connection with religious acts? For instance, at one point Baal-worshipping men of Shechem “went into the house of their god and ate and drank and called down evil upon Abimelech,” Gideon’s son. (Judges 9:22-28) Do you think one loyal to Jehovah would have shared in that drinking, perhaps calling for a divine influence against Abimelech? Describing a time when many in Israel revolted against Jehovah, Amos said: “They stretch themselves out beside every altar; and the wine of those who have been fined they drink at the house of their gods.” (Amos 2:8) Would true worshippers have shared in such, whether the wine was poured out as a libation to the gods or just drunk in that connection? (Jeremiah 7:18) Or would a true worshipper lift up a glass of wine and ask for a divine influence on someone or a blessed future for him?

  
  Interestingly, worshippers of Jehovah at times raised their hands and asked for a good outcome. They lifted their hands to the true God. We read: “Solomon began standing before the altar of Jehovah . . . and he now spread his palms out to the heavens; and he went on to say: ‘O Jehovah the God of Israel, there is no God like you . . . and may you yourself hear at the place of your dwelling, in the heavens, and you must hear and forgive.’” (1 Kings 8:22, 23, 30) Similarly, “Ezra blessed Jehovah . . . at which all the people answered, ‘Amen! Amen!’ with the lifting up of their hands. They then bowed low and prostrated themselves to Jehovah.” (Nehemiah 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:8) Clearly, those loyal ones were not lifting their hands heavenward for a blessing from some god of luck.—Isaiah 65:11.

  
  Many people today who share in toasts may not think that they are requesting response or blessing from some god, but neither can they explain why they lift their wine glasses heavenward. Nevertheless, the fact that they do not think the matter through is no reason for true Christians to feel obliged to imitate their gestures.

  
  It is common knowledge that on other matters also, Jehovah’s Witnesses abstain from making gestures that most people do perform. For instance, many people make gestures toward national emblems, or flags; they do not view such gestures as acts of worship. True Christians do not interfere with such gestures, but they do not personally participate. Knowing when such a ceremony may occur, many Witnesses have acted with discretion so as not to offend others. In any case, they are determined not to make patriotic gestures, which are out of harmony with the Bible. (Exodus 20:4, 5; 1 John 5:21) Toasting today may not be viewed by many as a religious gesture. Still, there are valid reasons why Christians do not share in toasting, which has a religious background and even now can be viewed as asking ‘heaven’ for a blessing, as if seeking aid from a superhuman force.—Exodus 23:2.

  
  
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  14

  How many killed by the 5 Cholera pandemics during the 1800's?

  by redpilltwice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you all know jwfacts (run by paul grundy).

  on this website, under “did the last days start 1914” ---> “pestilence”, it says:“during the 1800's five cholera pandemics killed around 100 million people.” .

  there is no link to any source of info, so i emailed paul and asked where i can verify that total number?

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  jwfacts

  I no longer have the source of that figure but think it may have been Sign Of The Last Days - When? by Carl O. Jonsson. If anyone has that book please check and let me know the quote and what page it appears on.

  
  
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  42

  Trey Bundy: One Year of Reporting JW Child Abuse - Your comments please!

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://watchtowerdocuments.org/trey-bundy-one-year-of-reporting-jw-child-abuse/.

  trey bundy: one year of reporting jw child abuse.

  it’s been one year since trey bundy first reported the watchtower’s child abuse problems.. twelve months ago the center for investigative reporting (cir) began publishing information about jehovah’s witnesses and their cover-up of child sexual abuse on their website, reveal.

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  jwfacts

  I am very impressed with the quality of Bundy's research and articles. I have even embedded his video on the home page of jwfacts.com, as it is easily the best 5 minute summary of Jehovah's Witnesses I have found.
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  44

  Should I get babtized?

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know this sounds like a ridiculous question but i was talking with my mom in the car today and of course we got on the topic of getting babtized again.

  she told me that jehovah holds me accountable for my sins regardless of wether i am babtized or not so i have no reason to be holding back because it won't change anything.

  my parents are the type of super strict jw who will shun you just for not being a witness.

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  jwfacts

  Then when I leave I will disasociate myself and things wouldn't be any different than if I hadn't gotten babtized in the first place,

  You will be treated differently as a disassociated person than as someone unbaptised. Maybe ultra strict JWs such as your parents will treat you the same as first but most JWs are far more likely to speak with someone never baptised.

  Being baptised won't make much difference in how the teenagers treat you, and as you know, as soon as you stop going to meetings they will all dump you as a friend anyway.