Posts by Bigdummy

8

Just thinking.....i

by Bigdummy in

jw
friends

i made a couple of comments the other day on this forum and i hadn’t realized it had.

been so long.

my history shows i joined 3 years ago.

Bigdummy

About 20 yrs ago our book study group met at the Hall. I liked meeting

there instead of a home. I had been in some home meetings some good

some brutal. We had in the high 40’s assigned there but the actual atten-

dance was less than half of that. I think some people asked to be in the

group so that if they missed maybe no one would notice since there was

usually 18-20 that could answer the questions. The conductor stated one

time “you know why so many aren’t here tonight?” Obvious answer to me

was people have different problems. Got home late from work, car broke

dowm, relatives from out of town or across town showed up unexpected-

ly that you hadn’t seen in years. It could have been a multitude of things

because all people have problems. Nobody answered because I think it

was a rhetorical question. Well here comes the answer. “It’s because they

don’t appreciate spiritual things.” Now this was at least 25 yrs ago. It was

just around the time I was starting to get irked with the whole jw thing. I

remember it was in the dead of winter and I thought I would ask a simple

question of the conductor after the meeting. I asked him how he came to

the conclusion that the absentees had no appreciation of spiritual things?

I said it’s the dead of winter and it’s flu season. It’s freezing outside and

we had a lot of little ones in the congregation at the time. Is it possible that

a lot are sick? He looked kind of sheepish there for a second and said he

hadn’t thought about that. That was about all I said at the time because

he was an elder and I was peon. But it struck me odd for one thing that

he would make a statement like that and then not consider all the possi-

bites that could have been considered for people not being there. But that

is pretty harsh I thought to be a shepherd and say the sheep aren’t here be-

cause they don’t appreciate what’s being provided. I’ve never been a MS

or elder but if my sheep are missing I think I would sincerely try and find

them and see what’s going on. Not degrade them or berate them but show

them I really cared. I don’t believe all shepherds are that way but I’ve seen

a lot worse. Never cared to be over anyone nor cared anything about tell-

ing people what to do. It’s not my nature. My dad and brother were in

supervision at their jobs and I was a warehouse worker at my place of em-

ployment. Union trade. Although now I drive a school bus and in charge of

the kids it’s not the same for me being over them. It’s more like protecting

them, being a nurse to them ( bandaids for cuts) custodian ( throw ups)

referee ( squabbles , fights etc ). Best job I ever had. You know I’ve heard

from the platform worldly kids are bad, out of control always running to do

something wrong or evil. Not so. Yes there are a few but the percentage is

low in my experience. Probably just as low as in jw land. In fact had a jw

kid spit on me one time. He had some social problems but it was a non

issue for me after a day or two. Everybody has their moments. So anyway,

long story short if the leaders and higher ups were truly loving and I mean

in a real sense, I could look over some flaws in doctrine, have a real broth-

erhood where people honestly cared for each other instead of this fake love

where people are scared to say anything because they may end up in the

backroom. I need to quit dreaming.

8

Just thinking.....i

by Bigdummy in

jw
friends

i made a couple of comments the other day on this forum and i hadn’t realized it had.

been so long.

my history shows i joined 3 years ago.

Bigdummy

I made a couple of comments the other day on this forum and I hadn’t realized it had

been so long. My history shows I joined 3 years ago. I’ve been looking on this forum

but I just felt like viewing other people’s posts since I had been thru a lot of the same

things. But I laid in bed about 3 hrs last night ready and thinking. Even though we all

on here went thru a lot of the same problems and disappointments I guess some

have different slants on how they were affected. I had to get out. I thought I was

going to go crazy and lose my mind taking in all this drivel. My wife went to the

hall this morning and I stayed home. She is totally in for the duration of her life. She

has friends in the congregation and they call each other. I had friends on a condition-

anal basis and I knew that. I call no one and no calls me except my family and very

few friends. I’m fine with her situation and I’m fine with mine. We don’t talk jw stuff

and we’re fine with that. She has 100% faith in the wtbts and I don’t mention it any

more. She knows about the ARC and the child abuse cases and cash settlements

because I brought them up a while. That was a sore point for her and did not want

me to ever mention it again. I wouldn’t feel right about trying to dismantle her faith.

That’s her faith to believe and do what she wants to do with it. If at a future date

she sees the real deal I’m not going to say I told you so. Everyone that critically

thinks will at one point start to see things differently. Everything I believe I can as-

sure you is not right but I also don’t demand you believe me under penalty of being

shunned. We’ve been married almost 50 yrs and have always pulled together as

one except on the jw issue. I always felt sorry for the ones at the Hall who set there

with dead eyes and nodding and bopping their heads with agreement at anything

that came from the platform. Scary and unnerving really. Several widows there

who seem to have no life in them and then all the other drones who are hanging on

for dear life hoping, just hoping they can endure to the end of their natural life so

maybe, just maybe they can make it back in the resurrection. A lot of people look

unhappy and physically in pain and they drag themselves to the Hall because it’s

so much better to be there instead of listening on the phone don’t you know. I’ve

seen elders upset and badger the congregation because no one put there hand up

to answer a question verbatim word for word from the publication. BS. Most peo-

ple want it to hurry up and be over. Anybody under 10 yrs old is already asleep and

the older ones don’t like to drive at night. I’m almost finished. The circuit servant

visited a few months ago and told the members that their tues. night mid week

attendance was horrible. Thanks for the fine encouragement I thought. He said to

change it back to thurs night and attendance would increase back to the way it used

to be before the members voted for tues night to be the mid week meeting night.

So they voted to change back. So close was the vote they had to recount the votes

several times. Surprise surprise. My wife tells me the attendance looks the same

except people appear to be more tired because they have been working all week.

I have more to say but I’ll cut this off for the time being.

22

It’s My Anniversary!

by jp1692 in

today is the four year anniversary of the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall.

it was the day of the kool-aid issue of the wt!

“at that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.

Bigdummy

Freddo

I could post more often but I feel that I would be redundant in the things I could

relate. I had a terrible run in with an elder about 25 years ago that set me back

mentally and emotionally. I struggled really hard after that. I was in the hospital-

tal several times over the next few years ( admitted myself) and had trouble

functioning with a job and trying to provide for a family. Almost ended it all at

one point which would have relieved me but not helped my wife and four kids.

i was diagnosed as bipolar and OCD. A few years ago I discovered that I have

what is Pure O. I won’t go into the details of what that is but I’d suffered with

that my whole life evidently. As the years past I calmed down quite a bit and

finally gave up trying to deal with this religion along with other things that aren’t

that important. I have jw family all around so I tread lightly when speaking to

them. Don’t want my life any more complicated by spouting off something to

one of them that’s not going to make any difference anyway. Rant over for now.

22

It’s My Anniversary!

by jp1692 in

today is the four year anniversary of the last time i set foot in a kingdom hall.

it was the day of the kool-aid issue of the wt!

“at that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.

Bigdummy

There were several things I couldn’t accept over the years and that line right

there “ follow our instructions whether or not they sound strange from a

human standpoint” was probably the big point that finished me off. I had been

in over 60 years now and brought in when I was six by my parents. My wife

and I were watching a documentary a few months ago on the Waco incident

with David Koresh. They showed a clip of him teaching his followers and I

promise he said that same line to them almost exactly word for word. I looked

over at my wife and she never said a word. I haven’t been to a meeting in months

and quit the field service over a year and a half ago. I haven’t commented

on here in a long time and I read and study the Bible and commentaries on my

own. The wife is still in 100%. She is a born in.

25

Do you feel that you are really YOU?

by UnshackleTheChains in

i am interested in finding out how you view yourself.

are really you when it comes to every day interactions....ie when at work, with family or friends, or if attending meetings?.

if still attending, do you feel you are not the real you at meetings?

Bigdummy

You have a lot of the same feelings I have. I have been associated with wtbts for

60 years. I go to keep peace with my wife. I haven't been in FS for over a year.

My wife knows my feelings and we just kind of leave it at that. She is still in 100%.

I don't go the mid week meeting but I go on Sunday about 3 times a month but

I go out to the car during the wt study. I usually just read my bible during the talk.

Nobody and I mean nobody has ever asked me about why I don't go out in FS.

Two elders visited my wife and I about 2 months ago ( I'm sure my wife invited

them) and neither of them asked about my not going in FS anymore. No CO visit

either. I guess I'm fortunate. I don't make waves with doctrines anymore. I do my

own research and study. If 8 million people want to believe something I say let them.

i believe what I want so I will let people believe what they want. I don't feel like

debating people who are entrenched in a belief. If somebody wants to know what

I think I'll tell them. I'm not a conversationalist anyway.

14

Don't know if I'm hearing things.

by Bigdummy in

i went to the hall with my wife on sunday.

i try to be there for my wife at some meetings.

because she is still neck deep in the beliefs and she understands my fading and doesn't.

Bigdummy

This was one of our local elders who has been around here at least 30 years. He

has stated some off the wall things in the past and even ticked his brother-in-

law elder off one time for something he said from the platform. The argument

between them is not here say, I witnessed the confrontation in person and tried

to help rectify the situation. The speaker was once our presiding overseer and it

always seems we get he A type personality in that position. They all seem to think

that this is THEIR congregation. I notice that it's the same 25% in the congregation

that provide all the answers to questions from the podium. I wonder if there are

not more like me at the hall, who used to answer maybe once per meeting, who

no longer care to participate because it's so drone like anymore. I wouldn't answer

questions directly from the publications but tried to put some meaning into what

I was saying. I see long timers who almost read the answer directly from the

watchtower word for word. Sad. No warmth. No life. I don't discuss any of my

feelings about the wtbts with any jw's. Only my wife. I haven't commented or

turned in any fs report in many months so I know I'm probably on the radar. Funny

thing though the circuit servant was just here a few weeks ago and I was expecting

a visit or something to see what was going on. Dead silence. They probably had

others that needed encouraging. I really do feel for others that can't see . I can't

blame them because my wife is one of them. I'm definitely not an intellectual or a

Bible scholar but come on. This whole organization is nothing like the 50s or 60s

when I grew up.

14

Don't know if I'm hearing things.

by Bigdummy in

i went to the hall with my wife on sunday.

i try to be there for my wife at some meetings.

because she is still neck deep in the beliefs and she understands my fading and doesn't.

Bigdummy

I went to the hall with my wife on Sunday. I try to be there for my wife at some meetings

because she is still neck deep in the beliefs and she understands my fading and doesn't

give me a bunch of grief about it. We have a conversation at times about what I don't be-

lieve anymore. Anyway the speaker shifted his talk to the 30 something attendees who

were not baptized jw's. I will use his quotes as closely as I can. He said " I guarantee this

is the truth but don't take my word for it. I want you to research the Jehovah's Witnesses

for yourself. Be like the Bereans and don't just accept something that somebody tells you.

Churches teach doctrines and have no moral compass coming from Bible teachings.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not have doctrines, we have the truth. Matthew 24:45 shows

definitely that Jehovah has a modern day organization." Okay I'll stop the quotes now.

There was so much wrong from my 60 + years of jw understanding that I couldn't quite

take it all in yesterday. My own researching and years of doubt have me where I am now.

If he wanted them to do research in jw publications only I could see his point. Jehovah's

Witnesses do not teach doctrines? I told my wife that one of the gb said they were the

guadians of doctrine. The statement that Matt 24:45 affirms that Jehovah has a modern

organization and it's the Jehovah's Witnesses? I didn't get that from reading that scripture.

My wife said " hmm " and went to sleep.

51

" you will never grow old..."

by mrquik in

jw
friends

" you will never grow old..." a more grievous lie is hard to imagine.

i heard this one first in 1957. i was 6. my mother had just converted.

i heard it many times after that.

Bigdummy

Markofcane,

That is my feelings also. I'm 65 and started going to the kh when I was five years

old. My wife was born in. I haven't been in fs for many, many months. Couldn't

continue to go to people's doors and tell them something I didn't believe myself.

i go the meetings sometimes to accompany my wife but I try to read my bible

while I'm sitting there and try to block out a lot of things. I look around some-

times and watch the others nod their heads in agreement to some ridiculous

assertment. One of the elders stated from the podium the other night, " if you

don't attend all meetings and go in fs, there is something wrong with you."

I thought so be it. If that's what you think that's fine. I don't speak to any

jws about my views. I tell my wife but it doesn't affect her beliefs at all. That's

ok with me. Everyone should be able to believe what they want. It's funny that

you can't question the org. It's like poking someone in the eye.

31

Midweek meeting

by loneranger in

jw
friends

almost two months into the change in format of the mid week meeting from the school and service meeting format to the christian life and ministry (clam) format.

in my congregation, seems attendance is down 10-15% over the normally low attendance for the mid week meeting before the change.

some indicate that the meeting under the clam format is very "intense"...you really need to study and research to be able to participate or get anything out of the meetings.

Bigdummy

I made a comment a few weeks ago but our congregation's lack of hand raising.

The attendance is dwindling and only a few raise their hands for comment. Two

families are moving and that comprises of about a 10 people. The meetings

are extremely boring, the comments are basically from the material and no

extra thoughts or heartfelt thinking on the comments. The elders keep saying

"this new arrangement is so exciting and fast paced the time just gets away. We're

just trying to hold on to the chariot." And once again out of the blue an elder will

bring up the fact that if the GB tells us to do something that doesn't make sense

in a human standpoint we should just go ahead and follow direction. I'm wonder-

ing , and I'm serious, is this statement something that the elders have been told

to say every other week? Also another thing I took note of. Jesus was mentioned

in the opening and closing prayer. Not one single time was his name said during

the entire meeting. None. Zero. Nada! I asked my wife if she noticed it. She didn't

and didn't seem to think anything of it. I told her the GB had taken his place. She

didn't want to talk about it. I can't talk to anybody at the hall about these things

because in the past I have tipped my hand to a couple of elders how I see things.

For my wife's sake I wouldn't want to cause a big disturbance so I just take and sit

with her.

20

My First CLAM Meeting

by The Searcher in

i carried out my monthly "cover" visit to the k.h.

tonight.

as previously discussed on this forum, the clam meeting is just a rehashed, recycled, reshuffled, & rebranded ministry school and service meeting.

Bigdummy

I haven't posted in a good while. I have been associated with this sect for approx.

60 years, baptized for 50. For someone who is newly converted, this CLAM deal

would be ok I suppose but the whole concept of jw indoctrination is very dis-

heartening. I still go with my wife for a night meeting but I don't get as upset as

I did just a few months ago. I can sit there for a couple of hours and it's like my

mind is really kind of listening and yet I'm studying peoples reactions to what

is said from the platform. It's like the Searcher said, the same few people do

90% of the commenting and that's fine with me because I'm surely not going to.

I haven't been door to door in many many months but yet I was asked if I wanted

to get back on the ministry school. I thought that was very odd. I wonder some

times if there are others at my hall who feel like I do. Too risky to try and find out

but it is telling that a lot, and I mean a lot are silent. An elder was giving a part

a few weeks ago that required audience participation and at one point he asked

a question and there was dead silence for about 30 seconds and you could see

he was getting frustrated and he said " come on people there's tons of answers

here". My attitude is not the best anymore about any organized religion. I read

the Bible and read a lot from Matthew Henry so I consider myself God fearing

and live my life accordingly. I'm not a rebel nor a great thinker, but sometimes

I wonder if the people in jw Ville do ANY thinking of their own. I know this is

doubled space but I can't prevent it.