listen to part 3 of the death or obedience podcast which charts the df'ing process from start to finish.. in this part the elders give a "sister" a grilling about her alleged apostasy and attemp to explain how god uses the organisation.. here is the link.. http://media.libsyn.com/media/tartanpodcast/doro_3.mp3.
Excellent arguement about who would be bloodguilty if the WT Society were to re instate the organ transplant ban and people were to die of it. He would not answer where the bloodguilt lies.
As I've said here before, I consider ALL Jehovahs's Witnesses, including myself whilst I was in it, to be PARTLY responsible for all deaths resulting from the blood and organ transplant policies.
A little extreme, I know, lol.
As Flipper would say
Peace out
listen to part 3 of the death or obedience podcast which charts the df'ing process from start to finish.. in this part the elders give a "sister" a grilling about her alleged apostasy and attemp to explain how god uses the organisation.. here is the link.. http://media.libsyn.com/media/tartanpodcast/doro_3.mp3.
Thanks again Hobo Ken
Much appreciated
Thomas Covenant
this is part 2 of the blog which charts the process of being disfellowshipped from the watchtower organisation.. a must hear!!!.
here is part 2.. http://media.libsyn.com/media/tartanpodcast/doro_2.mp3.
Thanks again Hobo Ken for your efforts.
Thomas Covenant
this blog has audio from conversations with the top elders in this countryduring " shepherding " visits and judicial.. first visit is in 4 parts.. part 1 here.. http://media.libsyn.com/media/tartanpodcast/doro_1.mp3.
Thank you very much, Hobo Ken, for your efforts in recording and posting this audio of your meetings.
It is so frustrating.I know it's quite long but well worth listening to.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you record this?
Thanks again
Thomas Covenant
i was watching a program last night about peter sutcliffe aka the yorkshire ripper.. as some here may know, there are rumours that he may have some links with jehovah's witnesses via prison.
if it was true, it seems appalling to me that he could be viewed as my spiritual brother (if both he and i were jw's).. however, wouldn't the 'christian' attitude, to which many billions of earth's fellow passengers aspire to follow, be ''how wonderful that he has repented'' ?.
what if i was a southern baptist and he became one?
Thanks for the replies.
Blues Brother- If a person believes in a god of forgiveness then yes it's easier to leave it to that god to do the forgiving. But what about the followers? Would they forgive Michael Porter , for example, if he joined their congregation?
yknot- I'm afraid I've never heard of K F Tucker but just looked it up on wiki. I agree a marvellous case, it appears, of someone changing for the better. And I'm not being sarcastic.
Getting back to the JW's and the Michael Porter and possible Yorkshire Ripper cases it would seem to me that christians couldn't have any complaints with the fact that it appears local JW's are willing to accept him back into their faith as that is the 'christian' thing to do.
As an atheist I marvel at religious peoples' ability to forgive people for committing terrible crimes because it is recorded that their deity requires it.
Can we condemn the JW's for taking him back? I don't think so. Not unless we condemn the act of religiously backed forgiveness.
Thomas Covenant
i was watching a program last night about peter sutcliffe aka the yorkshire ripper.. as some here may know, there are rumours that he may have some links with jehovah's witnesses via prison.
if it was true, it seems appalling to me that he could be viewed as my spiritual brother (if both he and i were jw's).. however, wouldn't the 'christian' attitude, to which many billions of earth's fellow passengers aspire to follow, be ''how wonderful that he has repented'' ?.
what if i was a southern baptist and he became one?
Hi
I was watching a program last night about Peter Sutcliffe aka The Yorkshire Ripper.
As some here may know, there are rumours that he may have some links with Jehovah's Witnesses via prison. If it was true, it seems appalling to me that he could be viewed as my spiritual brother (if both he and I were JW's).
However, wouldn't the 'christian' attitude, to which many billions of Earth's fellow passengers aspire to follow, be ''how wonderful that he has repented'' ?
What if I was a Southern Baptist and he became one? Or a Pentecostal and he became one? Or if I was a Catholic and he became one?
Some may also remember the Michael Porter case here in the UK. An elder from Clevedon who whilst shepherding the flock was also abusing some of the smaller sheep. I remember the UK press having a go at his sentence i.e. a community rehabilitation order. Some here on this forum also were quite angry. I rang London Beth Hell to ask a few questions re the Holy Spit and his appointment as an elder.
It seems Mr Porter is still a JW in London and many of us would probably not be too happy having him in our congregation.
However, and back to my question which I am addressing to those who view themselves as followers of Mr J Christ, surely forgiveness is a wonderful thing and any church would welcome people like Sutcliffe and Porter, and Hitler while we are at it, as long as they were repentant. After all isn't that what Jesus would do?
I remember Myra Hindley being reported as saying she was rehabiltated and should be released.
Personally, if I had committed those crimes but now felt totally rehabiltated and sorry for the bad I had done I would say ''Yes I am a new sorry, non dangerous person who should NEVER be let out of prison.''
Yes I really do think it's great when people see the error of their ways and turn around and maybe change their spots. However I would find it hard to forgive them.
I take the attitude; ' It's marvellous that you have repented but unfortunately this is a great shame and tragedy not only for your victims but also for you. If you truly are sorry you would not be asking to be released''
Am I getting the Christian message of forgiveness all wrong?
Thanks
Thomas Covenant
the wt society always made a big point about the anglo-american world power when i was growing up in the t. i don't know if they still do.
probably not.. couple this with the uk media very often going on about a special relationship between the two countries.
some journalists would often point out though that this may have been wishful thinking on the part of the smaller uk.. i was a fan of alistair cooke's 'letter from america' and he , being of an older uk birth background would also reinforce this impression i had that there was a difference between the bond between the us/uk that was different to other countries.. .
Hi
The WT Society always made a big point about the Anglo-American world power when I was growing up in the T. I don't know if they still do. Probably not.
Couple this with the UK media very often going on about a special relationship between the two countries. Some journalists would often point out though that this may have been wishful thinking on the part of the smaller UK.
I was a fan of Alistair Cooke's 'Letter from America' and he , being of an older UK birth background would also reinforce this impression I had that there was a difference between the bond between the US/UK that was different to other countries.
Is this idea totally one sided?
It seems to me that certainly in time of war that the two have worked very closely and does this influence the way the average US citizen sees the British?
I'd be interested in any comments thanks
Thomas Covenant
i'm not sure if i heard correctly on a bbc radio program this week but someone may have said that in the u.s. if you go behind on your mortgage payments and you simply hand in the keys and give up the home that's it.
in the u.k. if you do, i believe you are still liable for the shortfall owing.. e.g.
mortgage owing = 100,000. house repossessed and sold by bank for 60,000. the bank still pursue you for the 40,000 shortfall.. is this the same in the u.s.?.
Hi
I'm not sure if I heard correctly on a BBC Radio program this week but someone may have said that in the U.S. if you go behind on your mortgage payments and you simply hand in the keys and give up the home that's it. In the U.K. if you do, I believe you are still liable for the shortfall owing.
e.g. Mortgage owing = 100,000. House repossessed and sold by bank for 60,000. The bank still pursue you for the 40,000 shortfall.
Is this the same in the U.S.?
Thanks
Thomas Covenant
nice to be part of the board at last.
been reading here for around eight months.
very warily at first, but now my mind is out of the org.. i was raised in it and never would have dreamed at looking at internet sites for fear of being misled.
Hi Wary and welcome
You said
Im angry at myself for never having the balls to examine the details and let myself be led.
Anyway, Its good to talk and speak to those that understand, theres no one else that would get it is there!
That's exactly how I felt/feel.
This site is important for those who want a release from the anger.
Listen to Farkel and garybuss. I strongly recommend looking at the 'Best Of' section and look up Farkel. You'll feel better.
Thanks
Thomas Covenant
finally i got my chance to see what a witness was made of on the phone yesterday.. .
her opening line was "we haven't been able to reach you at your door, so that's why we're calling (barefaced lie as we have had witnesses call latey who even came back for a return visit but that's besty's story...).
we had a lively but ultimately very frustrating conversation.
Thanks for the account Sweet Pea.
With regard to Jesus believing in the Flood arguement that she used.
To the best of my recollection it isn't recorded that he said ''I Jesus H. Christ, of Nazareth, currently of no fixed abode, believe in the Flood of Noah''.
Rather it is recorded that he said
''just as in the days of Noah''.
This is no different to saying
''just as in the days of Oliver Twist''
or
''just as in the days of Huckleberry Finn''
If Barack Obama said 'we mustn't go back to the days of Huckleberry Finn' whilst trying to make a political point I would hope that future generations wouldn't take that to mean that Huck was a real person.
Thanks
Thomas Covenant
