Posts by ThomasCovenant

23

A good argument well won

by DD10 in

hi guy's.

this is my first post on this site - i've just browsed for a few months.

i've not been to the kh or remained in contact with my ex jw "freinds" for a number of years now.

ThomasCovenant

Hello DD10

Thanks for joining and posting.

With logic like yours I suspect there is very little prospect of you returning to the club.

Good

39

Feet and Toes Research and Noo Lite

by Mad Sweeney in

this has been discussed in the district convention thread but i felt like all the "toes" info would be nice to see in one place.

[from the late 1950s through most of the 1970s the toes of the image meant all coexisting powers and governments at the time of the end].

35 but there was a final or completing part of the symbolic image, namely, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.

ThomasCovenant

We've just had our District Convention. (Didn't go).

A relative has just called to say how marvellous the assembly was. Said same thing last year and the year before.

Anyway, they said how fantastic the new light (shite) was about Daniel 2;44.

I'll have to do a bit of digging to see what all the fuss is about.

27

Is immorality escalating?

by jworld in

i got the convention update from my mom, who attended this past weekend.

sounds like the society made the claim that immorality is escalating at a faster clip.

is that true?

ThomasCovenant

Watchtower Questions From Readers 1st Sept 1958,

Is it not true that only pessimists and alarmist say there is a moral breakdown in the world today?-J. G., United States.

Many individuals sincerely believe that nothing has happened to morals, that morals are no worse now than at any other time. Yet other well-informed persons who are really in position to evaluate present conditions cite today's blindness and callousness over corrupt government, business and sex practices as proof that society's morals have collapsed.

Gerald Heard, in his book The Third Morality, said: "No one can look at civilization today without the liveliest concern. That is a truism-a truism so painfully obvious that we have ceased to be able to respond to it." A prominent news columnist wrote: "What is happening to us is essentially a moral collapse. The gap between what we pretend to believe and what we do in practice has been constantly widening." Clergyman R. J. McCracken pointedly asks: "Is the moral tone of the nation-its politics, its business life, its literature, its theatre, its movies, its radio networks, its television stations-Christian?" Wherever you look morals are missing. Howard Vincent O'Brien is quoted as saying: "We strive to get as much as possible for doing as little as possible. . . . Simple honesty is rare enough for amazed comment. The thief has become respectable. The shadow of corruption hangs over the land. And poor witless clowns think they can do something about it by making agreements and passing laws. But the soul of man is sick. It will take more than this to cure him."

These are the words, not of pessimists and alarmists, but of clear-thinking men who are aware of conditions and are concerned about world trends. Christendom's moral breakdown was accurately portrayed in Bible prophecy. Isaiah wrote: "Justice is turned away backward, and righteousness standeth afar off; for truth is fallen in the street." "The whole head [of Christendom and of the world] is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it." The international immorality is a warning sign of this world's complete collapse at Armageddon.-Isa. 59:14; 1:3-6, AS.?

22

Adam didn't have intercourse with Eve prior to sinning? Watchtower Quote.

by ThomasCovenant in

watchtower 15th jan 1958 page 62 qfr.. why, after receiving from god the express command to multiply and fill the earth, did adam and eve refrain from carrying out this procreation mandate while they were perfect in the garden of eden?.

asking this question concerning adam and eve is like trying to meddle in the private affairs of a christian married couple today, and asking why they have had no children as yet.

jehovah god set no definite time for adam and eve to begin having perfect children to fill the earth.

ThomasCovenant

St George said,

Can you imagine going to someones door and asking

'Do want to know how wickedness began?'

'Well there was this naked woman, a fruit tree and a talking snake'

COME IN!

Thank you, lol.

What Would Farkel Say.

They're Effin Idiots.

And so was I.

22

Adam didn't have intercourse with Eve prior to sinning? Watchtower Quote.

by ThomasCovenant in

watchtower 15th jan 1958 page 62 qfr.. why, after receiving from god the express command to multiply and fill the earth, did adam and eve refrain from carrying out this procreation mandate while they were perfect in the garden of eden?.

asking this question concerning adam and eve is like trying to meddle in the private affairs of a christian married couple today, and asking why they have had no children as yet.

jehovah god set no definite time for adam and eve to begin having perfect children to fill the earth.

ThomasCovenant

Watchtower 15th Jan 1958 page 62 QFR.

Why, after receiving from God the express command to multiply and fill the earth, did Adam and Eve refrain from carrying out this procreation mandate while they were perfect in the garden of Eden?

Asking this question concerning Adam and Eve is like trying to meddle in the private affairs of a Christian married couple today, and asking why they have had no children as yet. Jehovah God set no definite time for Adam and Eve to begin having perfect children to fill the earth. They being perfect, their intercourse together sexually would be for the purpose of reproducing the human kind.

Evidently there was no intercourse between them for the begetting of children while they were in the garden of Eden.

Evidently there was no begetting of a child before they were expelled from the garden of Eden; otherwise their first son, born after their expulsion and named Cain, would have been born perfect of his mother Eve, just as Jesus was born perfect from his imperfect mother Mary. Why? Because Cain would have had the perfect Adam as his father.
Jehovah God did not drive Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden just because they did not promptly begin to have children, according to the procreation mandate. The sin for which they were expelled from Eden was their partaking of the forbidden fruit of "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad." (Gen. 2:17)

Their first act of intercourse that the Bible records was after their expulsion from Eden as sinners. Why they did not have intercourse and produce children during their stay in the garden of Eden is their own personal affair.

This proved to be very providential. It made it possible for all the offspring of Adam and Eve outside the garden of Eden to be redeemed by the one human sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. It left no child or children born perfect inside the garden of Eden who did not need to be redeemed by Christ's sacrifice, and the majority of mankind born imperfect outside the paradise of Eden who needed redemption by Jesus Christ. All Adam's descendants being begotten in sin outside the garden of Eden, all were born imperfect through inheritance from the one man. All were made subject to death through the one man Adam, and thus all those who were disposed to salvation could be recovered to everlasting life through the sacrifice of the one man, Jesus Christ.

7

Have Birth Pangs been getting worse throughout history?

by ThomasCovenant in

at genesis 3:16 jehovah told the woman that he would increase or multiply her pain in childbirth.

does this not indicate that there would have been some pain at childbirth even if the woman had not sinned?-g. v., belgium.. .

genesis 3:16 (nw) reads: "to the woman he said: i shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your longing will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.

ThomasCovenant

At Genesis 3:16 Jehovah told the woman that he would increase or multiply her pain in childbirth. Does this not indicate that there would have been some pain at childbirth even if the woman had not sinned?-G. V., Belgium.

Genesis 3:16 (NW) reads: "To the woman he said: ‘I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your longing will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.'" After she had sinned, Jehovah told the woman she would bring forth children in birth pangs. That meant pain for the sinner mother. So the promised increase of pain would indicate that fallen womanhood would undergo an increase of pain as the centuries passed, due to the accumulating degeneration and weaknesses that would cause increasing pain and ordeal. If this is the case, it would tie the increase of pain in with the sin that brought on degeneration in the first place, appropriately so. The nearer to perfection women were the less difficulty there would be for them in giving birth.

WT 1st July 1954, page 415 QFR

30

Lining up to kiss the bride is not allowed. Watchtower Question from Readers.

by ThomasCovenant in

many, if not all, of the witness weddings i attended in the last few years had the 'tradition' of the bride and groom and members of the wedding party lined up to greet the guests into the reception room.. it was also a faily common practice to kiss the bride.

congratulations and thanks were exchanged.

the usual pleasantries, thanks for coming etc.. well here is a quote i just found from the watchtower 15th may 1952 page 319-320, questions from readers.

ThomasCovenant

Further,

Watchtower 15th January 1965 page 62,

''At worldly receptions special honor and attention are often given the bride.

They toast her, they line up to kiss her, and in some places they even pay to dance with her.

Stop and think. Consider, for example, 1 Corinthians 11:3, 8, 9 and Romans 1:24, 25.

Is it in harmony with God's principles thus to highly honor a creature, exalting a woman? What will you do? Join with the crowd, or refrain? Such a worldly atmosphere is certainly not a good one, though the Christian wife of an unbeliever may find that it is not always possible to avoid such surroundings.''

Old or not this is still current shite unless they put in print that it is now ok to kiss the bride.

11

Comments please on," Jesus Dismantles The 1914 prophecy: on the "Watchtower Leaks" SITE

by pedal power in

jw
friends

i came accross this line of reasoning i have never seen before ????

?.

ThomasCovenant

http://jwleaks.blogspot.com/2011/05/jesus-christ-dismantles-1914-prophecy.html

30

Lining up to kiss the bride is not allowed. Watchtower Question from Readers.

by ThomasCovenant in

many, if not all, of the witness weddings i attended in the last few years had the 'tradition' of the bride and groom and members of the wedding party lined up to greet the guests into the reception room.. it was also a faily common practice to kiss the bride.

congratulations and thanks were exchanged.

the usual pleasantries, thanks for coming etc.. well here is a quote i just found from the watchtower 15th may 1952 page 319-320, questions from readers.

ThomasCovenant

Oh, it's dated alright. It is 59 years old. However, barring any 'new light' then this must still stand as 'current light'. Praise Jah.

30

Lining up to kiss the bride is not allowed. Watchtower Question from Readers.

by ThomasCovenant in

many, if not all, of the witness weddings i attended in the last few years had the 'tradition' of the bride and groom and members of the wedding party lined up to greet the guests into the reception room.. it was also a faily common practice to kiss the bride.

congratulations and thanks were exchanged.

the usual pleasantries, thanks for coming etc.. well here is a quote i just found from the watchtower 15th may 1952 page 319-320, questions from readers.

ThomasCovenant

Many, if not all, of the Witness weddings I attended in the last few years had the 'tradition' of the bride and groom and members of the wedding party lined up to greet the guests into the reception room.

It was also a faily common practice to kiss the bride. Congratulations and thanks were exchanged. The usual pleasantries, thanks for coming etc.

Well here is a quote I just found from the Watchtower 15th May 1952 page 319-320, Questions from Readers. The splitting of sentences and highlighting in bold is my doing.

Does the Society approve of well-meant showers held preceding weddings or childbirths? Should the gifts be displayed along with an identification of the givers?-M. F., New York.

The Society does not disapprove of properly conducted showers. But it is not good to get shower-minded, and involve the Lord's people in a spree of them. It is easy for one or two to touch off a series that can become an endless circle of showers. It can burden the brothers, take their time, and their money for gifts they cannot always afford. You may say no gifts are necessary, but the custom calls for gifts and the majority will bring them, and it would be embarrassing to come empty-handed. Now there is certainly nothing wrong with giving gifts. Done spontaneously, it is commendable brotherly kindness and sometimes shows real Christian concern. There is some Scriptural obligation to note those of our brothers who are in need and to help them. We may use a shower as an occasion to help, but we do not have to wait for such occasions, we do not have to fit our giving into such customary times and seasons. Help is sometimes needed at other times. We should give when the need arises, and to those for whom the need is acute, and do so spontaneously, unsolicited by shower invitations that obligate us to give, whether the recipient is in need or not.

Should the givers be identified with their gifts? Why should they? Surely those giving the more expensive gifts do not seek public acclamation. It might embarrass the poorer brothers who must give more modest gifts, and perhaps cause them to spend more than they can really afford. So why magnify the rich and humble the poor, even if it is unintentionally done? (Jas. 2:1-4) It is not Scriptural, this publicity to gift and giver. "When you start making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, They are having their reward in full. But you, when making gifts of mercy, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing." (Matt. 6:2, 3, NW) If anonymous giving were practiced, would the gifts be as expensive? Would the giver spend beyond his means, if he were not identified with the gift? That would truly measure the unselfishness behind the gift. Such giving pleases God.

One final point of utmost importance, whether it is a shower or wedding or reception or just a friendly gathering of witnesses. Control the activities so that some edifying results.

Silly games are for babyish people; mature Christians have advanced beyond them, left them behind.

Sexually suggestive or passionate dancing to blaring jazz is not for Christians, though proper dancing and music cannot be condemned.

When Jesus attended a wedding feast he used the occasion to glorify God, performing his first miracle, the turning of water into wine. (John 2:1-11)

And we can be sure that he did not get in any line to kiss the bride either-so we leave such woman-exalting practices back in the creature-worshiping world, where they belong.

Instead of any such looseness of conduct or excessive use of food or drink, we should control activities and regulate entertainment into profitable channels, such as the singing of Kingdom songs, playing Scriptural quiz games, relating field experiences, and so forth.

Not only will such things be a proper relaxation for us and get us better acquainted with one another, but they will be helpful to persons of good will that may be present and impress them favorably with Jehovah's people.

So we say that there is nothing wrong in properly planned showers, and those who attend should not be criticized by those who stay away, and vice versa. Be moderate in the number held, the giving, the enjoyment of material food and drink while there, and make them spiritually upbuilding. Always remember Christ is our model. (1 Pet. 2:21) He did not consume too much time on such things, did not make a showy display of giving, did not become gluttonous or drunk on such occasions, or at any other time. When at social gatherings he used the occasions to God's glory, but he did not book up his evenings with parties and exhaust himself socializing. It was his zeal for Jehovah and the preaching work that consumed his time and energy. So it should be with us, balancing our various activities proportionate to their importanc