Posts by ThomasCovenant

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

Don't forget the eight members of the governing body are talking to the rest of the witnesses. Ditch the 3rd person shite.

The Watchtower of July 15, 2013 said "It is vital that you recognize us. Your spiritual health and your relationship with God depend on this channel." (page 20)"

" You need to obey us to have Jehovah's approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition

"The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following our lead, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ." Watchtower 2010 Sep 15 p.23

"It is vital that you appreciate this fact and respond to our directions as you would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370

"By submitting to us , you also show your subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ."(w02 10/1 p. 19)

Therefore, when you loyally submit to our direction , you are submitting to Christ, the slave's Master. - (W 4-1-2007, p.24. par.12)

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

NY Times article: On Gay priests, Pope Francis asks, "Who am I to judge?"

by adamah in

from ny times:.

rome for generations, homosexuality has largely been a taboo topic for the vatican, ignored altogether or treated as an intrinsic moral evil, in the words of the previous pope.

in that context, brief remarks by pope francis suggesting that he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation, made aboard the papal airplane on the way back from his first foreign trip, to brazil, resonated through the church.

ThomasCovenant

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/who-am-i-to-judge-the-pope-says-gay-man-2013073077345

A GAY man has said that although Pope-ish acts are bad, a Pope-ish orientation is not.

In what his friends claim is a softening of his stance on Popes, 38-year-old gay chef Tom Logan claimed he was fine with them as long as they didn't do any Pope stuff.

He said: "If a person is a Pope but has good will, who am I to judge them?

"And it would be even more ridiculous if I were to say that then continue by telling Popes how to behave.

"After all I am just a bloke, albeit a bloke with a funny hat - a chef's hat. Actually that does make me a bit special, so listen up."

Speaking from behind the vaguely pulpit-like oven at the restaurant where he works, Logan said: "It's fine for a man to have Pope-ish feelings, as long as he does not act on them in any way. Or lobby for religion.

"You could argue that telling a Pope not to do any Pope behaviour, like taking mass or dressing up in robes, is essentially the same as telling them not to be a Pope. But it is not.

"Don't even try to argue with me, or I will wave this spoon in an intimidating manner."

Logan's colleague Emma Bradford said: "Because Tom's very sexually frustrated he's gone a bit funny and developed a weird belief system. Basically he thinks he is a spokesman for this invisible being called 'Gorgonzola'.

"He doesn't realise that for a religion to be proper it has to have been made up a long time ago."

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

ThomasCovenant

1. The perpetrator was expelled (kicked out) from the congregation. (Most probably eventually)

2. The congregation supplied additional evidence that would otherwise not exist, evidence that aided the court in reaching a guilty verdict. (Eventually)

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

ThomasCovenant

I know nothing about this case except what is being reported, but here's my comment.

'Their barrister Richard Daniels said the men had a "duty to God" not to breach confidence.

He added: "Privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence." '

Commendable, (debatable) if you believe that is what you are doing, brothers. If so how come you then changed your mind at the last minute?

''Despite the judge's ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.''

4

Post Count

by ThomasCovenant in

hi, .

i can't see posters' post count anymore.

did a search and couldn't find any info.

ThomasCovenant

Ta

4

Post Count

by ThomasCovenant in

hi, .

i can't see posters' post count anymore.

did a search and couldn't find any info.

ThomasCovenant

Hi,

I can't see posters' post count anymore. Did a search and couldn't find any info.

Is it me?

69

Atheism and the delusion of meaning

by Laika in

jw
friends

in the movie annie hall, written by woody allen, as a young boy, alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression.

when the doctor asks alvy what's up, alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore.

most people might see this as a joke, but i think woody is trying to make a serious point.. the point here is about meaning.

ThomasCovenant

91

Carbon dating and the Global Flood - links needed

by wizzstick in

i've been using the search function on the site to research this, but a lot of articles seem quite old and there have been some interesting developments in this field of late.. if you're not sure on what carbon dating is have a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/radiocarbon_dating.

there's an interesting point made in the calibration methods section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/radiocarbon_dating#calibration_methods.

on developments in the last few years.. they highlight the discovery at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/lake_suigetsu and how it increased the calibration from 12,593 to 52,800 years.

ThomasCovenant

The Watchtower seem to acknowledge that the Great pyramid of Giza was built 244 years before Noahs' Flood. (2614 BC) (4600 years before 1986 is 2614 BC.)

Awake 1986 1/22nd January pp. 29-30

Watching the World ***What was the air like 4,600 years ago? That is what scientists are hoping to discover when they penetrate an underground chamber on the southwest side of the Great Pyramid of Giza. The 96-foot-long (29 m) chamber, covered by 4- to 6-foot-thick (1.2 to 1.8 m) limestone slabs, is thought to house a second ancient funerary boat for the "soul" of Pharaoh Cheops. The first-only 12 feet (3.7 m) away from the current site-was discovered in 1954. That wooden vessel, 130 feet (40 m) in length and excellently preserved, is on display in a museum built for it. The two pits, some 30 feet (9 m) deep and covered with 10 feet (3 m) of rubble, escaped the ravages of time and tomb robbers. It is expected that the second will be like the first-hermetically sealed by gypsum cement, thus trapping the ancient air. Space-age technology will be used to penetrate the chamber without introducing outside air. This will enable the scientists to measure particularly the carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide in the interior air, compare them with present levels, and perhaps throw some light on the question of whether the earth is really warming up as is believed by some scientists.

4

How much water is on planet earth?

by ThomasCovenant in

the watchtower, as i recall, get over the noah's flood story as regards saying the waters covered the mountains by saying that the mountains weren't .

as high pre flood as after.

the water didn't have to be 30,000 feet deep.. but supposing the highest bit of land was just 100 meters tall.

ThomasCovenant

The Watchtower, as I recall, get over the Noah's Flood story as regards saying the waters covered the mountains by saying that the mountains weren't

as high pre Flood as after. The water didn't have to be 30,000 feet deep.

But supposing the highest bit of land was just 100 meters tall. Times that by the surface area of the globe of 510 million square kilometers

and that is still a lot of water.

Whilst trying to work this out I came across the following site which does a good job of comparing the volume of water on the planet.

I have no idea how accurate it is.

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/2010/gallery/global-water-volume.html