Posts by Jerry1

1

reconciliation

by Jerry1 in

the scriptures do not tell us why onesimus was over 900 miles [1,400km] from home with paul in rome, where the letter to philemon was written about 61 c.e.

but paul told philemon: "if [onesimus] did you any wrong or owes you anything, keep this charged to my account.

"(philemon 18) these words make it clear that onesimus was in trouble with his master, philemon.

The Scriptures do not tell us why Onesimus was over 900 miles [1,400km] from home with Paul in Rome, where the letter to Philemon was written about 61 C.E. But Paul told Philemon: "If [Onesimus] did you any wrong or owes you anything, keep this charged to my account."(Philemon 18) These words make it clear that Onesimus was in trouble with his master, Philemon. Paul’s letter was written with the aim of reconciling the two men. W98 1/15

There are only 4 references to this verse on the 2007 Watchtower CD and one of them is the Bible itself. the other 3 are all like this ......

Lessons

forChristiansToday

The book of Philemon abounds in practical lessons for Christians today. For one thing, it reminds us of the need to be forgiving, even when a fellow believer has seriously wronged us. "If you forgive .....

This verse is maybe the most obvious illustration of the atonement that Jesus accomplished that we have in the whole Bible and all they can see is the idea "be nice".

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

jerry

5

i don't know

by Jerry1 in

jw
friends

i never was a witness, never been inside a kingdom hall.

i lurk sometimes in this forum because i have one in my family.

i am going to try out a similar conversation on her and would like to know how any of you would have answered these questions thanks jerry.

Jerry1

I never was a witness, never been inside a kingdom hall. I lurk sometimes in this forum because i have one in my family. I am going to try out a similar conversation on her and would like to know how any of you would have answered these questions thanks jerry

Hey, good morning, boy am I glad to see y’all come on in and have a seat. Can I get you some water or tea or anything ? am I glad to see you cause I’ve got some questions that I’ve been wondering about your religion and maybe you can help me. I was reading a Watchtower magazine that I ran across , lets see it’s March 15 1990 and there’s an article about a faithful slave being appointed with lots of dates and scriptures quoted and there was this question “

Who is the Head of God’s household, and to whom has this One delegated authority?” Now, best I can understand the head of God’s household is Jesus but let me just ask y ou about this.

Yes, get your Bible and I will teach you. Turn to Matthew chapter 24 verse 45. In my version it reads "

Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time"?

OK, now I have read this many times in the past and always thought it referred to the second coming of Jesus. There are all kinds of dates in this article 1878 1884 1918 1944 what’s the deal? When did this appointment happen? Let me just ask some simple questions right from the top. Who is the Master?

Jesus

And before we get to the appointment itself who is the slave?

Well they are the last members of the 144000 mentioned in Revelation chapter 7. That is the all of the New Testament Christians that ever were, see and they already were slaves of Jesus and Jehovah and they just got like a promotion to be in charge.

Last members? Put in charge? Who exactly was put in charge?

Well you know the Bible talks about a remnant.

OK lets come back to the who question and go to the how question. I read about the Mormon leader who says he was put in charge by means of a vision. He says he saw God up about tree top level and God just said he was putting junior in charge, so how did it happen with this remnant.

How?

Right, Jesus is up in heaven right? How exactly did he communicate? was it in a vision, a dream, a booming voice, still small voice , hand writing on wall, donkey talking, warm fuzzy feeling as he/she/they ( we’re coming back to this remember) read Matthew 24?

How did it happen uumm I don’t know .

OK where did happen? New York, Pittsburg, where was this remnant when the appointment was made?

I don’t know.

OK when did it happen

1918 !! I got one !!

We’re talking about the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ , the blessed hope of ever Bible believer for two thousand years, the most monumental thing we can imagine so it must have been quite a celebration marked by lots of noise. Can you be specific, what month and day was it?

I don’t know.

OK lets go back to the who question. I need a name. Who was the person that received the appointment to be in charge?

I don’t know.

Who would know? Who can we ask?

The elders, I will get back to you.

OK lets review what we don’t know. We don’t know how it happened, when it happened , where it happened , who it happened to. Can I get your phone number so I can call to see what you find out?

6

looking for God

by Jerry1 in

jw
friends

"i lived as a depressed and embittered man, lost my children to the christian faith, and was a terrible witness to your goodness.

but lord, thanks to you, i never left catholicism.. http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunchycon/2006/10/orthodoxy-and-me.html.

it's a little long but you might feel a kinship with this man.

Jerry1

"I lived as a depressed and embittered man, lost my children to the Christian faith, and was a terrible witness to your goodness. But Lord, thanks to you, I never left Catholicism.

http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunchycon/2006/10/orthodoxy-and-me.html

It's a little long but you might feel a kinship with this man. I never was a JW but to quote Red Green, " we're all in this together" jerry

8

January 1919 IBSA Convention Now Online

by cabasilas in

if watchtower history is not your cup of tea just ignore this thread.

recently our family got a new scanner.

in my files i had a photocopy i'd made of the january 1919 ibsa convention booklet years ago.

Jerry1

cabasilas / leolaia / and or vm44 It seems to me that WT history is their soft spot. I was never a JW and my interest in them is related to getting my daughter and son-in-law out. I have made many mistakes in my effort, mainly trying to make Bible points but those days are over. I now see that history is the way to go. Since you guys are very knowledgeable I would like to get your thoughts on my approach. These are some questions i have been thinking of. I realize the approach has to be low key and with love, i learned that the hard way also.

questions: who was the person that initally learned of the appointment of the faithful and descreet slave? was it the person / persons himself or did someone else realize it and contact the slave with this monumental news?

How was the news of the appointment conveyed? If they say holy spirit OK but what method did hs use? Angel? Dream? was the newly appointed slave reading Matt 24:45 and get burning in bosom? i wont use sarcasm but i'm just saying....

When did it happen? 1919? Fall of the year maybe but seems like the second coming of Jesus would be major event just 3 years before and the appointment would be documented well.

Where was the slave when this was shown him/them? New York? Pittsburg? where?

In the past I have been blind sided by responses I didn't expect so any input you have would be great. What would you have answered? Maybe you could try these on your relatives for a real world test. Anyway thanks for your work and thanks for the .PDF jerry

2

relationships

by Jerry1 in

jw
friends

as a never-been jw, i mostly lurk here trying to learn how to deal with my jw daughter.

one thing i have learned is the many relationships that are so sadly hurt or destroyed.

i live near atlanta where there is a church pastored by a man named andy stanley and i am going to post a link to his site where there are some sermons.

Jerry1

As a never-been JW, I mostly lurk here trying to learn how to deal with my JW daughter. One thing I have learned is the many relationships that are so sadly hurt or destroyed. I live near Atlanta where there is a church pastored by a man named Andy Stanley and I am going to post a link to his site where there are some sermons. I don't attend that church but I do usually listen to him later in the week because he is a pretty good speaker and teacher. I just thought of some of the posts that I have read here as I was listening to last Sunday 7-2. I am not saying that it will solve anything or even help....it free why not jerry

http://www.northpoint.org/sermons

2 Samuel 14:14 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

14 Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him.

11

Would the Watchtower have 'self destructed' if 1914 had been peaceful?

by AK - Jeff in

another thread sparked this one.. if 1914 had come and gone without the advent of wwi, would the sect of bible students have just faded into the woodwork?.

was the war [obviously heavily referenced as proof of their claims] the bouy that allowed and spurned the growth into what we see today?.

jeff .

Jerry1

The followers of the WTS (and other cults) are so naive and sheepish the FDS can easily manipulate them into believing almost anything. The 1914 date was not propagated by Russell as the beginning of a world war but armageddon so he died a bitter man in disgrace in 1916 while that war was raging, knowing his prophecies of 35 years had failed. Christ did not appear in 1914 to destroy human governments.

Greendawn, why do you say Russell died a bitter man, just curious jerry

3

fun with CD

by Jerry1 in

jw
friends

question box.

how should matters be handled when a householder insists that jehovahs witnesses make no further calls at that home?.

when we encounter a sign at the door that strictly prohibits calls of a religious nature and specifically mentions jehovahs witnesses, it may be best to respect the householders wishes and avoid knocking.. .

Jerry1

Question Box

?

How should matters be handled when a householder insists that Jehovah’s Witnesses make no further calls at that home?

When we encounter a sign at the door that strictly prohibits calls of a religious nature and specifically mentions Jehovah’s Witnesses, it may be best to respect the householder’s wishes and avoid knocking.

I never had any contact at all with JWs until my son-in law and daughter joined up. It has almost taken over my life as well researching

and that is why i come here, you guys have been lots of help. I down loaded the CD and I continue to be amazed at things i read.

Picture this....a householder ( me for instance ) went to the trouble to put up a sign saying...well, like it says here above, and it may be best

not to go there. amazing.

So far, though i think the following is my favorite. Obviously both are products of the legal department.

17. Does the nonfulfillment of our own premature expectations mean that Jehovah has altered his purposes?

13

What do Christians believe about Heaven, Earth and the better RESURRECTION?

by jwfacts in

the bible speaks of several resurrections and several places.

how are these reconciled by christians?.

will people continue to live on earth, and if so will there still be death?.

Jerry1

Jwfacts, have you ever thought about the basic question....what is life? what is the definition? google it....you get answers like "life is what

seperates organic things from inorganic things" well in other words life is what seperates dead things from live things. Are electrons spinning

around the nucleus of an atom alive or does it take cells replicating themselves to make life? Awhile back i tried to research exobiology and

found even the smartest guys cant agree on what life is. I bring this up to just say christians regard God as the source of life and all other

life is derived, first time, second time, whichever and to be seperated from the source means death. The actual means of transmitting life

are beyond understanding, whether by the first Adam or the second Adam. To be plugged back in to the source means life again and this

explains all the scriptures concerning being born again. This explains why the old testament people were saved because they already had

the Spirit of Christ in them see 1 Peter 1:11 just like all saved people see 2 cor 13:5 for the test. Check the interlinear, it just says IN YOU not in union with you. I am the vine you are the branches....does a branch look dead immediately when it is separated from its source?

What is the better resurrection?
I think the writer was just on a roll i.e better hope better testament better promises better country better resurrection better things

than that of Abel

What is the earlier resurrection? research the greek...exanastasis, just another word for resurrection.

This is just the kind of conversation that got me nowhere with my JW relative, are you sure this is the way you want to go? jerry

23

as a jw..did you ever have a REAL theological discussion with anyone?

by candidlynuts in

jw
friends

this came up in a conversation with a non witness friend lately.

he said its like i thought i was having theological discussions all the time but from what he could tell...i would go to the door with prearranged comments, which would illicit one of a few comments and my response would be as programmed as the initial comments.

i'm no brainy person.. and freely admit i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Jerry1

This is an issue that concerns a not ever witness like me. My daughter joined up several years ago and is still the only witness in our family.

I have read extensively and met many ex-jw so i feel pretty informed. The one thing all ex's have told me is that they were never challenged

by a christain at the door. Over the last several years i have tried to remedy that around where i live and have been asked to speak in several

churchs as lots of folks know us and our situation. At first i was giving too much info and people would could not keep listening, heck i can't

juice up the WT religion either. I have now been asked to speak to a group and have decided to stick with history and just quickly go through

the religion part. I have 2 questions for y'all. First if i can convey the idea in the handout below so that they understand and can ask common sense questions is that the best approach for a church person. Second if the subject does get to religion ( salvation) would it not be enough

to ask the witness how the annoined are saved and then press them that i am also saved ( church person ) exactly like that? This way their

religion and history is addressed. Remember this is for church people who have no clue about anything JW. comments please.....tks jerry

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************

45:

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. Matthew 24:45-47 KJV

45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Matthew 24:45-47 JW version

They say this servant/slave represents the same people in REV 7:4 - 8 ( 144,000 ). The Witness that comes to your door will be in the Great Multitude in verses 9 - 17. If we paraphrase their version we get ( on arriving, He will appoint ) so the 2 things are linked together. They say Jesus arrived ( in Heaven ) in 1914 then appointed them in 1918. However, originally they believed the "return of Christ" was in 1874 and kept that position up until the 1940s.

21 In 1918, when Jesus Christ inspected those claiming to be his slaves, he found an international group of Christians publishing Bible truths for use both inside the congregation and outside in the preaching work. In 1919 it truly turned out to be as Christ had foretold: "Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matthew 24:46, 47) These true Christians entered into the joy of their Master. Having shown themselves "faithful over a few things," they were appointed by the Master to be "over many things." (Matthew 25:21) The faithful slave and its Governing Body were in place, ready for a widened assignment.

This is cut and paste from the Watchtower magazine of 3/15 1990 Page 14.

55 In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time," it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.

This is a cut and paste from a Jehovah's Witness book entitled "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years has Appoached"

copyright 1973 page 209. This 1973 book quotes another of their books from 1943. The only reason this has any significance is the reference to the date 1874. This is a rare admission and the witness at your door probably dosen't even know about it and may deny it. So when did Jesus "return" and their appointment happen? How can such a momumental event like the return of Christ ( not to mention their appointment as ruler ) be in any doubt?? By the way the word "parousia" is just Greek for presence/arriving/cometh in Matt 25:46.

Basic questions.....If I were to join your group would I have to believe Jesus is in Heaven ? Is Heaven a long way off ? Can you see into Heaven ? What are they doing in Heaven today right now? Can your leaders see into Heaven? How did they know they were approved or appointed? When was the Slave ( your leaders ) appointed to feed you with Watchtower magazines,1874, 1918 or when? Who knew of the appointment first? Where was he/she/they? How was it made known, booming voice, still small voice, donkey talking, angel? Warm fuzzy feeling? Was someone ( who when where) reading Matthew 24 and just get a feeling that he was now in charge? The second coming of Jesus, the greatest most monumental event we can imagine, surely your leaders know all these basic details. Surely it was big news in the Watchtower of the day. 1874, 1914, 1918 or when ( also who, where how )??

Remember the important point is Jesus' approval. We all make mistakes but Jesus does not. If Jesus approved them, OK fine, but we just need some more information.

When the Bible says that people worshipped Jesus, that is not the important point, because people will make mistakes and worship in error, see Exodus 32:4 Acts 14:11 or Revelation 19:10. What is important is that Jesus approved of people worshipping Him. This is not a small point. We are not so interested in what the Watchtower leaders were doing at any given time in history. They made mistakes and so do we, but they have made an extraordinary claim concerning Jesus, that they received his approval and appointment to be over His sheep.

We would need some more information. Can they research it for us ?

77

For Darcy, what do you think is necessary for salvation?

by TheListener in

jw
friends

i know it was a rather long and drawn out title but i couldnt' think of another way to word it.

this is especially for the new poster darcy.

i was wondering what you felt was necessary to receive everlasting life, whether on heaven or paradise earth?

Jerry1

Darcy, you sound like a great young lady........just one more post and i will quit bugging you.

According to the WT, a person cannot have Jesus as their agent ( mediator ) unless they are annointed. Jesus is only the mediator for the144k and then in turn the annointed are the mediator for everyone else. Too many middle men here sugar................take care jerry

watchtower 1951 june 15

Hence, besides individually possessing God’s Word, we need a theocratic organization. Yes, besides having God’s spirit of illumination, a Christian needs Jehovah’s theocratic organization in order to understand the Bible. He needs to attend the meetings arranged for by that organization and to study with fellow Christians. He needs the organization, too, in order to work in harmony with God’s purposes and to be directed aright in his movements. The reason is that Jehovah God is dealing with his organization, and does not deal with individuals who are outside of his organization or who defiantly try to act independently of it.

watchtower 1981 8/1

Where do you stand with regard to the fulfillment of the illustration of the "wheat" and the "weeds"? The fact that the "harvest" of the "sons of the kingdom" is well advanced proves that the "conclusion [synte´leia] of the system of things" is nearing its end (telos). Your attitude toward the wheatlike anointed "brothers" of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into "everlasting cutting-off" or receive "everlasting life."