Posts by Ingenuous

32

Blood and sacrifice alternative view point

by Spectrum in

from the jw point of view as 'christians' they are bound by all the new and some old testament laws.

it would be a farce if they copped out every time things got hard, they might as well have a corporate merger with the catholics.

acts 15:20 clearly states that the new christians that are being recruited should abstain from blood amongst other things.

Ingenuous

In Acts 15 in the NWT, the instructions in the letter sent to the congregations was to "keep" abstaining from blood. The word "keep" suggests there was a precedent to which the congregations were to attend. In fact, there was: the Mosaic Law. Those who did not want to offend the sensibilities of the Hebrew Christians could "keep" obeying the Law's injuction on blood. The specific injunction dealt with the consumption of blood as food - and that was only for animals that had been purposely killed for food.(There was no prohibition against consuming the blood of animals that had died of natural causes or from an attack by another animal.) Consumption bears no resemblence to transfusion. You probably already saw all this on that site, though.

And I give blood for the same reason Carla does.

45

13 years old boy has been baptized

by M.Bibleres in

13 years old boy has been baptized!

this month i went to a circuit assembly (north/west germany) to spy what is going on and too keep me up to date with teachings and jehovah's witnesses language.

after the assembly was over i just happened to see a father congratulating his child for being baptized.

Ingenuous

I saw a program about the same thing: the human brain continues to develop until about 25 years of age, particularly those parts of the brain involved in reasoning and risk-assessment. The program was discussing this in light of the popularity of high-risk sports many young adults participate in, like le parkour.

If I remember correctly, my Dad was baptized at 6. That was nearly 60 years ago.

35

So were any bible prophecies true?

by cheeseman in

i'm just wondering to what extent the bible accurately predicted future events?.

when i was a good little jw, i was constantly reassured that we could have confidence in the paradise because the bible always got it's predictions correct since it was inspired by jah, blah, blah.. does anyone know of a good website which critically examines each bible prophecy one by one?

what do real bible scholars with no bias make off all these prophecies?.

Ingenuous

I can't vouch for any of their sites, but thought it was interesting that both Yahoo! and Google had entire directory categories devoted to biblical prophcey.

I've personally found The Preterist Archive interesting.

37

Former elder wants your advice--PART 4

by Confession in

jw
friends

so now that the entire midwestern region seems to know about this "confidential" judicial committee, i suppose it was time to get started with it.

we arranged to have both accusers come at specific times.

i ask, please, for your level-headed, thoughtful advice.

Ingenuous

Confession, thank you for sharing your story and for being so candid.

I've come to realize something lately that I never understood when I was a JW. The elders have no right to determine when a crime has been committed. It is not their place and they are not equipped to do such. Crimes are to be investigated by the civil authorities, and judgement and punishment must be handled by their justice system. The only "right" elders have is to decide how they will interact with a suspected pedophile in their midst. They may have "ecclesiastical" authority within their personal congregations, but they do not have civil authority.

Child molestation is a crime, an assault. The fact that sexual manipulation is involved, that persons may be embarrassed or upset or exposed to a discussion they consider taboo does not change that. Jehovah views rape with the same seriousness with which He views murder. (Exodus 22:25-27) If I was an elder and learned from someone that they had been an eyewitness to a murder, I would be wrong to go to the family of the victim and say, "Well, the elders can't do anything because there was only one witness and we have no confession. In our opinion, no wrong has been committed by the accused, even though your relative is dead. While we know murder is illegal, that a murderer running free could murder again, that there's no shred of hope that justice will be served if those who are in the know keep quiet, the elders have decided to not breathe a word. It is entirely up to you whether you go to the police or not; it's a personal decision since you're related to the victim." It doesn't make any sense.

Statute of limitations or no, the truth needs to be told. There may yet be newer, additional victims for whom the countdown has just begun. I think it is common knowledge that sick people rarely recover when left to their own devices. And I think the greatest show of respect we can make toward another is to speak the truth aloud and without blinking.

If I seem passionate, it's because I am. I'm biased. I've worked with children who were sexually abused. I've transcribed by hand their descriptions, in front of the police, of what was done to them, exactly how and how often and where and by whom. I've written down what I saw when the littlest victims, too young to know the words, used dolls and pictures to show what happened to them. I've seen photographs in medical records of the physical injuries these children sustain at the hands of their assailants - and I've seen the way those same children mutilate and abuse themselves in response to what was done to them.

This is a crime. Crimes are handled by the police. I personally could not keep silent without considering myself an accessory after the fact. That is my personal opinion - but you must act based on your own opinion. Your posts on this topic suggest to me that, whatever you believe is right, you will follow-through with your best effort to accomplish that. I don't think any more can be asked of anyone.

10

Non-Blood Products and Medical Insurance

by YoursChelbie in

if anyone is familiar with health insurance claims, could you elaborate on the cost difference between a patient being admistered whole blood during surgery as opposed to blood expanders?

are health insurance companies hesitant to pay for non blood products?

is this the reason doctors don't use them as standard practice?.

Ingenuous

Watchtower 2000 10/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
... during certain surgical procedures, some blood may be diverted from the body in a process called hemodilution. The blood remaining in the patient is diluted. Later, his blood in the external circuit is directed back into him, thus bringing his blood count closer to normal. Similarly, blood that flows into a wound may be captured and filtered so that the red cells can be returned to the patient; this is called cell salvage. In a different process, blood may be directed to a machine that temporarily carries on a function normally handled by body organs (for example, the heart, lungs, or kidneys). The blood from the machine is then returned to the patient. In other procedures, blood is diverted to a separator (centrifuge) so that damaging or defective portions of it can be eliminated. Or the goal may be to isolate some of a blood component and apply that elsewhere on the body. There are also tests in which a quantity of blood is withdrawn in order to tag it or to mix it with medicine, whereupon it is put back into the patient.
The details may vary, and new procedures, treatments, and tests will certainly be developed. It is not our place to analyze each variation and render a decision. A Christian must decide for himself how his own blood will be handled in the course of a surgical procedure, medical test, or current therapy. Ahead of time, he should obtain from the doctor or technician the facts about what might be done with his blood during the procedure. Then he must decide according to what his conscience permits....
QUESTIONS
TO ASK YOURSELF
If some of my blood will be diverted outside my body and the flow might even be interrupted for a time, will my conscience allow me to view this blood as still part of me, thus not requiring that it be ‘poured out on the ground’?
Would my Bible-trained conscience be troubled if during a diagnostic or therapeutic procedure some of my own blood was withdrawn, modified, and directed back into (or onto) my body?

69

What is God's true organization he is using? if this not it, then point me

by amommy in

i have been a jw all my life, my sister and i are now in our late twenties and are so unhappy and after desparate attempts to keep up meeting attendance are not spiritually motivated.

we in last few weeks have found some very disturbing things in our search such as the un involvement.

after research on these things and use of the wt library the society speaks for it's self on these issues calling the un the "disgusting thing" that the book of daniel spoke about(wt 85' para.

Ingenuous

Welcome amommy!

Some of my favorite articles for addressing the "we need an organization" argument are found here:

http://www.brci.org/publications.html

An excellent book (a quick read) called Captives of a Concept is available for purchase in .pdf format. It cuts to the chase and provides ideas on discussing this idea with others using the Proclaimers book.

5

What sort of symbiotic relationships do you have?

by AK - Jeff in

symbiosis is a close ecological relationship between the individuals of two (or more) different species.

sometimes a symbiotic relationship benefits both species, sometimes one species benefits at the other's expense, and in other cases neither species benefits.

ecologists use a different term for each type of symbiotic relationship: .

Ingenuous

That would be me and my parents - or, I should say, was me and my parents. The closest human equivalent to symbiosis that I know of is codependency.

Codependency can be tricky to identify – in ourselves. It’s much easier to notice when someone else is codependent than when we are. Usually the person who is codependent feels painfully entangled with someone else’s problems. We may feel responsible for, controlled by, angry at and guilty about another person’s issues – all at the same time. Often we feel guilty about being who we are and feeling what we feel. Sometimes these feelings are clear and obvious; sometimes the whole relationship is mired in the quicksand of denial. We just want the other person to do or be something other than what he or she is and our interactions with him or her are desperate, impossible, and manipulative stabs at achieving that. We believe that we’d be happy if the other person would just change. Codependency can manifest in many ways. At the heart of it is our confusion about what it means to take care of ourselves, a genuine fear about whether or not we can do that, and unfamiliarity with the concepts called surrender, letting go, and detachment. This is where the trick often comes into play. Usually the codependent person is super-responsible, taking care of everyone around him or her. Often we look so competent compared to the people we’re involved with that all we can see is their issues, not ours. And nobody may have ever taught us that we can love someone deeply and still let go.... The ultimate paradox that many of us have discovered is that when we start working on and taking care of ourselves, the situation – and sometimes the other person – does change.

18

Did The Watchtower Society Decieve You Enough To Sue Them???

by minimus in

jw
friends

did they really misrepresent anything to you that you could sue for?

everyone knows how they take quotes out of context.

do you personally have a valid reason to sue the society??

Ingenuous

A lot of us here have had terrible experiences, but I seriously do not see how a judge would rule in the plaintiff's favor in suing for damages in cases like these.

You know, at this point, I wouldn't care about being awarded damages. I'd just want a lawsuit to advertise, put in the paper, put on TV, and use to get people's attention and - hopefully - to get them to stop long enough to start thinking.

Publicity would be enough. An award for damages would be lagniappe.

19

Where is the love?

by sweet tee in

jw
friends

jw's are taught that their love is what identifies them as true christians.

but typing on another thread let me to this discovery:.

what i expected from witness friends and what i expect from my friends now are totally different.

Ingenuous

Well, don't y'all know, JW's have the "secret" love...that "AGAPE", love

Ahhh, yes - the "I love you but I don't have to like you" love!

19

Where is the love?

by sweet tee in

jw
friends

jw's are taught that their love is what identifies them as true christians.

but typing on another thread let me to this discovery:.

what i expected from witness friends and what i expect from my friends now are totally different.

Ingenuous

I couldn't confide a lot of things in my Witness friends because I didn't understand that many of us had the same feelings, doubts and fears, but we weren't able to discuss them freely because the society discouraged it. So I suffered alone and eventually left in pain and frustration ... I just had to get out and get a life.

It's hard - not to mention, unwise - to confide in people who can and will betray you at any moment, who will use your fears and doubts against you. There is no real idea of "helping" with many elders - the focus is on "discipline", i.e., punishment, and crushing any small amount of pride or self-respect that would move one to ask questions and expect a response in the first place. Even those who want to help others often are so subsumed by the Org that when they step over the line, they can't even recognize what they're doing.

I have been embraced by my "worldly" associates - people who's acquaintance I made in the hopes that I could eventually convert them or at least get in a decent amount of time informal witnessing to them. I'm so grateful at least one of us knew what it meant to be a real friend.