Posts by Ingenuous

109

Women are in subjection to their husbands and to the Elders!!!!!

by Gill in

the february 15th watchtower 2007, is spectacularly nauseating!!!

at least i found it so.. i would welcome the opinion of all on the board to this sentiment on page 19, paragraph 8 and9:.

'although subjection can be challenging, women can welcome it as honorable, even as did jesus.

Ingenuous

When women follow God's direction to do so, they set an example for the angels in God's organization arrangement.

According to the Bible, the angels were around before the earth was even created. If they don't know how to act by now, that's not my problem.

Remember that Eve was deceived, but Adam, not deceived, but chose to not lose Eve as a companion and joined in her disobedience. There is something different in the thinking process of women and men, for which reason men are to have the teaching role in doctrinal matters.

This doesn't make sense to me anymore. Why is being honestly and actually deceived [Eve] worse than knowing better and doing wrong anyway [Adam]? How does being willfully and knowingly disobedient qualify someone for "the teaching role in doctrinal matters?"

16

Protect your assets, use a JW

by startingover in

jw
friends

subject: excerpt from book.

"how to protect your identity and your assets" by j.j. luna.. .

although they call their church buildings "kingdom halls" we look them .

Ingenuous

Well, they don't mind taking the recommendation and running with it:

http://www.testigosdejehova.es/e/20030201/article_02.htm

"IN CONSTANT DEMAND"
"Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as to Jehovah, and not to men," says the Bible. ( Colossians 3:23 ) Obviously, one whose work ethic is governed by this fine principle would be a sought-after employee. For that reason, J. J. Luna, in his book How to Be Invisible, advises potential employers to search out active members of certain religious groups, but he adds: "In actual practice we usually end up with [Jehovah's] Witnesses." Among the reasons he gives is that they are well-known for their honesty, and that puts them "in constant demand" in various fields.

93

Your favorite "bumper stickers"

by new boy in

jw
friends

i have two.

"please god protect me from your people".

"if you love something let go.......if it doesn't come back, hunt in down and kill it" .

Ingenuous

"If you're going to ride my ass, at least pull my hair."

"Jesus loves you - everyone else thinks you're an asshole."

"Talk nerdy to me."

33

how can we answer them?

by Cordelia in

jw
friends

i've tried and i've tried now i need help, how do you answer:.

jws who think it's fantastic that jeh is providing this new light all the time, i say about the rev book amongst other things and they just think it's a sign they are in the right religon coz '''what other religon would admit it's faults?

'' doesnt matter they been studing wrong light last time!!.

Ingenuous

how do you answer that esp when a part of you is scared they have a point????? well not a piont but a 'what if it could be right tiny feeling!!!'

I've had that niggling feeling, Cordelia. It's part of the "super ego" monstrocity we're left with when we leave.

I had to ask myself: if this were reallly from God, would I be sitting here feeling uncertain and confused? If God wanted me to know something, wouldn't he be clear about it and I be sure of it - without doubt?

I had to remind myself why I left in the first place: because of issues which were not reflections of mere idiosyncracies or random imperfections, but because of problems which were inexcusable in the face of reason and the basic kindness and respect which distinguishes humanity from inhumanity.

73

What's the most stupid comment a JW told you?

by JH in

jw
friends

i remember when i was new in the "troof", i was walking in a mall and a jw window washer saw me, and asked, "what are you doing here"?.

yeah, he had a good reason to be at the mall, cause he was washing windows, but i had no business there.... i guess he thought that i was being seduced by material stuff.... and i was stupid enough, not to tell him, mind your own business fu**er....

Ingenuous

"Pioneers who have to come off the list get depressed because Jehovah withdraws His spirit from them. Since they don't go out as much, they don't need as much holy spirit."

I was still "in" at the time and asked the uber-Witness who said this to me, "If God doesn't try anyone with evil, why would He purposely do something he knows would harm someone?" Blank stare - no answer - change of topic.

13

Has anyone read any Echart Tolle?

by new boy in

"the power of now".

"a new earth".

i must say both books blew me away.......................life changing!

Ingenuous

I've seen a lot of people into New Thought who recommend Tolle. Is his philosophy NT oriented?

37

"Family day" Is this a new jdub thing?

by cultswatter in

i know of jws that celebrate "family day" at this time of year.

i have asked these jw about where they got the term "family day" was it from the watchtower?

they seem to deny the watchtower had ever mentioned "family day", but i can sense they are trying to hide something here.

Ingenuous

I am (was) 3rd generation and never heard of "Family Day", though my folks started giving my sister and me presents on their Anniversary the last few years I was still at home.

115

Can we start a Secret Santa Recieved/Sent Thread?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

i'm worried because i sent a christmas card plus had a gift sent by ups over the internet about 7 days ago and haven't heard anything.

i would feel really feel bad if my person didin't receive their gift or card.

so i think we need to have an official post place.

Ingenuous

Thank you, Secret Santa! I got my package today! Waiting impatiently until the 25th.

And, taking Lady Lee's advice:

fullofdoubtnow:
I got mine today, so thankyou very much.
There was a senders address, but no name, just secret santa.

I'm thrilled it made it! They don't offer delivery confirmation internationally here, so I was getting worried.

30

The JW's Concept of The Resurrection, a False Hope?

by VM44 in

the jw's concept of the resurrection is that at some time in the future a duplicate physical body of a person will be created and onto this duplicated body's brain, the person's memories will be impressed.

the jw's are very clear that the individual does not possess a "soul" that continues on after death, so there is nothing unique to transfer from the original person to the re-created body.

why should the idea that some impostor in the future who was given my memories and who also believes that they were once me give me any hope today?

Ingenuous

Does it not seem odd, that the unrighteous who are unlucky enough to be alive at the end get eternal death, whereas the unrighteous who are dead, get life?

Not only is it taught that they get a second go-round, but they get to do it while growing to perfection, under divine rulership, with Satan out of the way for a thousand years. How fair is that?

I never caught-on to the implications of the resurrection as taught by JWs until reading this thread just now.

This is also destructive to the current Bible Student eschatology:

The At-One-Ment Between God and Man What, then, dies? We answer that it is the soul that dies-- the sentient being ceases. Let us remember that the sentient being was produced by the union of the breath or spirit of life with an organism, and that the separation or dissolution of these two causes the cessation of the being, the soul--death. That this is true of the lower animals, none would for a moment question; but is it not equally true of man, the highest animal, created in the intellectual image and moral likeness of God? It is no less true, and should be equally evident to every reasoning mind. We are aware that some few scriptures might be twisted and misunderstood to contradict this proposition, but in due course they will have consideration and will be found in most absolute accord with these presentations.

E342

Take another illustration of the relationship between the human or animal body, spirit and soul: an unlighted candle would correspond to an inanimate human body or corpse; the lighting of the candle would correspond to the spark of life originally imparted by the Creator; the flame or light corresponds to sentient being, or intelligence, or soul quality; the oxygenized atmosphere which unites with the carbon of the candle in supporting the flame corresponds to the breath of life or spirit of life which unites with the physical organism in producing soul or intelligent existence. If an accident should occur which would destroy the candle, the flame, of course, would cease; so if a human or animal body be destroyed, as by disease or accident, the soul , the being , intelligence, personality, ceases . Or if the supply of air were cut off from the candle flame, as by an extinguisher or snuffer, or by submerging the candle in water, the light would be extinguished even though the candle remained unimpaired. So the soul , life, existence, of man or animal would cease if the breath of life were cut off by drowning or asphyxiation, while the body might be comparatively sound.

As the lighted candle might be used under favorable conditions to light other candles, but the flame once extinguished the candle could neither relight itself nor other candles, so the human or animal body while alive, as a living soul or being can, under divine arrangement, start or propagate other souls or beings--offspring: but so soon as the spark of life is gone, soul or being has ceased, and all power to think, feel and propagate has ceased. In harmony with this we read in the Scriptures of Jacob's children: "All the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls ." (Exod. 1:5) Jacob received his spark of life as well as his physical organism, and hence the united product of these, his soul or intelligent being , from Isaac, and hence from Adam, to whom alone God ever directly imparted life. And Jacob passed on the life and organism and soul to his posterity, and so with all humanity.

E343

A candle might be relighted by any one having the ability; but by divine arrangement the human body bereft of the spark of life, "wasteth away," returns to the dust from which it was taken, and the spark of life cannot be re-enkindled except by divine power, a miracle. The promise of resurrection is therefore a promise of a relighting, a re-enkindling of animal existence or soul; and since there can be no being or soul without a body and restored life-power or spirit, it follows that a promised resurrection or restoration of soul or being implies new bodies, new organisms. Thus the Scriptures assure us that human bodies, which return to dust will not be restored , but that in the resurrection God will give such new bodies as it may please him to give. 1 Cor. 15:37-40

The Apostle here declares that in the resurrection there will be a special class accounted worthy of a new nature, spiritual instead of human or fleshly: and, as we should expect, he shows that this great change of nature will be effected by giving these a different kind of body . The candle may here again serve to illustrate: suppose the fleshly or human nature to be illustrated by a tallow candle, the new body might be illustrated by a wax candle of a brighter flame, or indeed by an electric arc-light apparatus.

With any power and wisdom less than that of our Creator guaranteeing the resurrection, we might justly fear some break or slip by which the identity would be lost, especially with those granted the great change of nature by a share in the first (chief) resurrection to spirit being . But we can securely trust this and all things to him with whom we have to do in this matter. He who knows our very thoughts can reproduce them in the new brains so that not one valuable lesson or precious experience shall be lost. He is too wise to err and too good to be unkind; and all that he has promised he will fulfil in a manner exceedingly abundantly better than we can ask or think.

Many suppose that the bodies buried are to be restored atom for atom, but, on the contrary, the Apostle declares,

E344

"Thou sowest [in death] not that body which shall be." It is the soul , the sentient being, that God proposes to restore by resurrection power; and in the resurrection he will give to each person (to each soul or sentient being) such a body as his infinite wisdom has been pleased to provide; to the Church, the "bride" selected in this age, spirit bodies; to the restitution class, human bodies, but not the ones lost in death. 1 Cor. 15:37,38

As in Adam's creation, the bringing together of an organism and the breath of life produced a sentient being or soul , so the dissolution of these, from any cause, puts an end to sentient being--stopping thoughts and feelings of every kind. The soul (i.e., sentient being) ceases; the body returns to dust as it was; while the spirit or breath of life returns to God, who imparted it to Adam, and to his race through him. (Eccl. 12:7) It returns to God in the sense that it is no longer amenable to human control, as in procreation, and can never be recovered except by divine power. Recognizing this fact, the Lord's instructed ones commit their hope of future life by resurrection to God and to Christ, his now exalted representative. (Luke 23:46; Acts 7:59) So, then, had God made no provision for man's future life by a ransom and a promised resurrection, death would have been the end of all hope for humanity. 1 Cor. 15:14-18

115

Can we start a Secret Santa Recieved/Sent Thread?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

i'm worried because i sent a christmas card plus had a gift sent by ups over the internet about 7 days ago and haven't heard anything.

i would feel really feel bad if my person didin't receive their gift or card.

so i think we need to have an official post place.

Ingenuous

I sent mine, but I dd it wrong! I didn't include my name.