what will happen is that the supreme court will "clarify" the issue, constituionally speaking and then either a) leave it to the "high court" (the court below supreme) to judge on the issue based on their "clarification" or b) judge on the issue themselves. Option A is the most likely.
The child is not likely an irish citizen. Before 31/12/04 ANYONE born on the island of Ireland, North or South, was considered an Irish citizen. This law was put in place as part of the "good-friday" agreement. The purpose of the law was to allow subjects of Northern Ireland become citizens of Southern Ireland, while still being resident in the north. This was to pacify the catholic, soon to be majority of the North, to get them to agree to the peace accord. However there was a loophole that many economic refugee's found, and would come to ireland, have their kids who were automatically Irish and would therefore become Irish themselves. The government sought to have this changed as this would present many problems in the future for the country which has as developed a "social" system as ireland (ie the goverment payout for things ad nauseum for its citizens). so the child will only be a citizen if the mother has lived in Ireland for four years prior to the birth, which i think is unlikely. The child is considered a resident, not a citizen. a technical difference, the judge however treated the child as someone who was under the care and responsibility of the state.
As for the sensationalist newspapers, i wouldn't know- i don't read the red tops :) I persume you are Cymry so Iechyd da!
isthisit
JoinedPosts by isthisit
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40
In Ireland, JW's may sue over blood transfusion
by Kenneson inin an unprecedented case, an irish judge overruled an adult woman jehovah's witness objection to blood transfusions.
in the past, only children had been forced to have transfusions where deemed necessary.
when the story first broke out, there were several ambiguities and questions unanswered.
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isthisit
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40
In Ireland, JW's may sue over blood transfusion
by Kenneson inin an unprecedented case, an irish judge overruled an adult woman jehovah's witness objection to blood transfusions.
in the past, only children had been forced to have transfusions where deemed necessary.
when the story first broke out, there were several ambiguities and questions unanswered.
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isthisit
1) the branch could support her though...although i do wonder if as she is a member, it could be taken as an organisation-i will ask...
2) yes, but they sought the court order, and are therefore ultimatly responsible
3) this is where the sister may have not presented the facts, and therefore the hospital and courts did not have the full facts and were therefore working off the facts at hand.
4a) it is ireland, not eire-no one here ever refers to it as such :-)
4b) yes it is the same, but judges are seen as part of the political appartus and therefore any lawsuit would be against "the state"
5) the case would be on assault, and the taking away of her human rights, breach of religious freedom, breach of freedom of medical treatment and authority over her own body.
6a) ireland, not eire
6b) legal aid is quite easy to get, all refugee's are afforded legal aid, however i suspect the society are going to get a HR lawyer involved in this and therefore the "world wide work" will probably be paying-although because it is such a constitutional issue, most lawyers do this work "pro-bono" as it will make a name for themselves
7) see #6- the constitutional implications of the case are far more public than the fact she is a witness. -
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In Ireland, JW's may sue over blood transfusion
by Kenneson inin an unprecedented case, an irish judge overruled an adult woman jehovah's witness objection to blood transfusions.
in the past, only children had been forced to have transfusions where deemed necessary.
when the story first broke out, there were several ambiguities and questions unanswered.
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isthisit
yes she did, my sources in Dublin (the ones that are still talking to me) said that she did have her medical release on her and there was another witneses with her.
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In Ireland, JW's may sue over blood transfusion
by Kenneson inin an unprecedented case, an irish judge overruled an adult woman jehovah's witness objection to blood transfusions.
in the past, only children had been forced to have transfusions where deemed necessary.
when the story first broke out, there were several ambiguities and questions unanswered.
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isthisit
it is strange, most papers and people are coming out in favour of the witness woman. The doctors and the Courts violated the constitution, something that people here feel very strongly about. The arguments on the radio shows and in the news papers are concentrating on the constitutional issue rather than the religious. She was victim to what the papers AND BARRISTERS are terming "court sanctioned assault". She was found to be "compus mensis" and therefore could not be sectioned. The court took away her rights as an adult patient of a hospital. Until the supreme court clarifies the issue, theoreticaly it is possible for any public body force anything upon anyone "for their own good".
It is altogther a strange case. she stated that she was alone, she lied, her husband is in the country but is illegal. More and more is coming out that clouds the issues. She was a member of the Dublin-French congregation which is a very close knit group. More and more is going to come out and i'll try to keep you all updated. -
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Hospital ordered to give Jehovah's Witness transfusion
by Gilberto inhttp://www.eveningecho.ie/news/bstory.asp?j=83890466&p=8389x768&n=83890846.
hospital ordered to give jehovah's witness transfusion.
21/09/2006 - 5:28:29 pm.
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isthisit
it is all over the media here (in ireland)....to be honest what i find most disturbing is that the judge went above his constitutional duty to protect the law...what he in essence did was create a new law...it was a precedence setting decision that as a citizen i don't agree with. we have freedom to choose treatment for ourselves, she freely chose to submit to the wtbs's teaching, according to the newspapers she was wavering... What this means is that technically, until clarified by the supreme court, the state can override personal decision. "Bunracht na hEireann" (our constitution) has nothing within that justifies what the court did.She was in essence subject to assault, albeit court subjected. The court gave leave to subdue her if neccessary, once again the courts go above and beyond their call of duty.......... ,,,,,,,,,,another strange thing is that the HLC had no idea that she was in hospital, she did not in any of her hospital visits declare she was a witness, and the spokesman on talk radio today said "if she is a witness". The french group in Dublin is very close-knit. All i can say is, i'm glad the kid is ok, the mother is ok, i am however disappointed as a citizen
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Aftermath of DA letter-what to expect?
by exwitless ini already posted this question in the middle of my previous topic, but i think i buried my question there.
i would like to hear some more experiences from those who da'd themselves regarding the immediate "aftermath" (specifically with the elders).
neither my husband nor i have any jw family.
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isthisit
we wrote our letters, and delievered them at the same time to the elders and the people that counted. The elders came and asked if we understood the depth of what we were doing, that we were condemning ourselves to death and that we would not be able to see any of our friends again. After we answered we understood, and explained everything over again, they asked if we could pray together, we accepted, then they left. Some of our friends have never spoken to us, and with others we have pints in our old places, as if nothing has changed. We missed our first meeting the next night and went for a meal with some friends- they wondered why we were smiling so much, the thing is- they never knew we were witnesses, and the bigger thing is, if they did, they probably wouldn't have cared. Basically, expect feelings of elation, followed by periods down in the dumps, before you go back to elation. You lose a lot, but gain so much more.
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What is the meaning of life?
by frankiespeakin ini was reading about experiences of those who smoked 5meo-dmt, found in the venom of certain toads, i had got a hold of 1/2 of gram of the 99% pure stuff and smoke it about 20 or 30 times, it a very intense trip, that allows you to see thru many of the progams we got running around in our minds and concepts we've been brainwashed with from government and culture(that's about the best way i can discribe it).
any way this experience that i take a quote from is after he came down enought to be able to speak english(i often spoke in tongues when first becoming able to speak) i thought he gave a pretty good answer to the question:i felt so clear-headed about everything that i asked my friends to just go ahead and ask me something, anything.
one of them asked me 'what's the meaning of life?
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isthisit
i figure "to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we are to die"
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i want to thank a lot of you
by isthisit ini want to thanks those of you who replied to my threads, and pm'd me.
anyway, the announcement was made.
we arrived at the meeting a little after 2015 and went away again just after the announcements and went for some drinks with some friends of my from uni, we told them that we had left, their reaction?
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isthisit
I want to thanks those of you who replied to my threads, and pm'd me. Anyway, the announcement was made. We arrived at the meeting a little after 2015 and went away again just after the announcements and went for some drinks with some friends of my from Uni, we told them that we had left, their reaction? " Finally!". My parents have been amazing through out the whole thing, however i think that my mum may be under the illusion that we are going to seek reinstatement after we are married. They are however keeping their relationship with us on a need to know basis. Only two of my friends within the org, my true friends are staying in contact, infact they are coming to the wedding. So it seems in Boston we are going to be a party of 14, which will be a nice civilised number. Anyway i suppose the whole point of this message is to say thank you, i don't know how my access is going to be over the next few weeks, i'll drop by and read and hopefully respond isthisis
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well, we are no longer JW's and look what i got from my father!!!
by isthisit inisthisit .
i cant believe that it has come to this, but your hand has been pushed and you had to act, for this i know that we raised you the right way.
we love you both, and will be in boston with you on your day.
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isthisit
“Isthisit”
I can’t believe that it has come to this, but your hand has been pushed and you had to act, for this I know that we raised you the right way. We love you both, and will be in Boston with you on your day. Tuesday it appears will be a big day for the hall. I am no longer the PO and am considering coming off as an elder. I am not doing this because you disassociated yourself, I am doing this because I did not agree with decisions that had been reached by the body concerning your situation, can you believe that only two of the body had no problems with you marrying?!?! two, i won't name names but i know you know who they are.
Phone me today and we’ll sort ourselves out a bit together, perhaps dinner tonight. Your mum is upset , but please be assured that it is on your behalf, not because of you. She stands with me on this, we have already got our tickets.
Love
Dad
We sent our letters out, just to get it over with, we were sick of waiting. We told my parents personally last night, and went around our friends houses last night, putting letters through their doors. Finally we put our letters though the elders doors. Our friends (the ones that had the good grace to talk to us) have been mostly supportive, understanding why we are doing this, but most said that they can't have anything to do with us. Two have said that they still love us, and are we registered somewhere :-). So i suppose we are no longer JW's, it feels so strange to write that, we are no longer jehovah's witnesses. -
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Book Study this Week - Is the World Getting Worse?
by jgnat inthis week's book study is on the state of the world since satan was ostensibly tossed down here to spread his misery in 1914. according to the watchtower society, the world has been steadily declining since that date.
i contend they selectively filter bad news in order to maintain their beliefs.
the world is not necessarily worse today.
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isthisit
we had our bookstudy last night and it really got me thinking. Ok the earth is an unsettled place at the moment, for instance Lebanon, threat of terrorism, mad dictators in places like North Korea. And then it hit me, the wts and publishers always talk in vague generalities, never specifics. Fortunatly our bookstudy has a higher ratio of bright sparks (relative? as it is the city centre group and so has all the students living downtown in the group as well as those earning enough money at proper jobs to live in the city). However one sister said that Paul wasn't talking about us when he wrote these things. The conducter said "um no offence A***** but we have to fight hard against these things as they are imperfect human nature". Vague generalities, hearsay and conjecture seem to be evidence as far as the org and the borg are concerned
Oh yeah, it also occured to me that the only ones in the hall that harp on these points are the ones that have nothing going for them in this system, hoping that the new world will be better for them. You know studying this book instead of reassuring me of the "right things" has pushed me and suprisingly some others in the other direction.