West70

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Posts by West70

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  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
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  West70

  Eduardo:
  
  You state:
  
  "My point is that NY law exempts religious orders. the WTS is a relgious order for purposes of the WC law."
  
  This is where you are wrong.
  
  NY Law does NOT exempt religious orders.
  
  NY WC Law exempts MEMBERS of religious orders.
  
  If a NY Religious Order hires an "employee" to do some work for it, then the RO better have WC Insurance.
  
  NOW, who do you think determines who is a "member" of a RO for WC purposes?
  
  The RO?
  
  I don't think so.
  
  The WC Board via the WCL Judge determines who qualifies as a "member" of the RO, and who qualifies as an "employee" of the RO -- FOR WC PURPOSES.
  
  Thus, this is WHY this Judge looked at Brenda Upton's STATUS, rather than the status of the WBTS.
  
  This Judge decided that irregardless of the paperwork Upton signed with the WBTS that her JOB STATUS made her an EMPLOYEE UNDER WC LAW.
  
  What we don't know is all the specifics of such, and how they might impact other claims from other claimants.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Eduardo:

  I am working from the news article only, which states:

  "I'm finding they were not religious volunteers," Goldstein said. "They were engaged, particularly Dr. Brenda Upton, in a number of work-like activities."

  The Witnesses vowed to appeal the ruling, saying Upton and the other 5,800 Witnesses who live and work in the church's New York operations are volunteers, not employees.

  Sounds to me as if Upton's "status" as an employee was the basis of this Judge's ruling.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Eduardo:

  I simply do not have the patience to critique your lengthy posts line-by-line.

  However, this statement of yours basically sums up the quality of your arguments:

  "West and others: I think you are missing the point. the status of the workers is actually quite immaterial. The only issue is whether an employer/company/corporation is subject to the WC requirements or not."

  Are you saying that in a not-for-profit religious organization that the "status" of a "worker" is "immaterial"?

  If I'm not mistaken, it is the very "not-for-profit religious organization" that has BOTH "employees" and "volunteers".

  How do you suppose it is determined whether an injured person at one of these "not-for-profit religious organizations" receives WC benefits?

  THIS is THE ISSUE this Judge has ruled on. He has decided that Brenda Upton's "status" is an "employee" at least some of the time; if not all of the time.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Randy:

  That's NOT what you said. You stated:

  "But the very fact that from now on they COULD act in this matter as self-insured if they desire kind of protects them from future big losses."

  Your "changed tune" is now correct. WC injury claims have to be handled the same per NY State Law regardless whether the employer is self-insured or is protected by a purchased insurance policy.

  As for your "Allstate" analogy, I know of no single Millionaire who foregoes auto insurance simply because he has a large bank account. The opposite is true. The Millionaires who have many assets are those who need and want insurance to protect such from "future big losses".

  Yes, some businesses with "deep pockets" choose to self-insure, but many times the negatives and hassles outweigh the positives on the other side of the scale.

  If WBTS chose to self-insure, yes, they would save the initial "premium", but expose themselves to even larger financial losses.

  Injured Bethelites would then be eligible for standardized benefits (as opposed to being at the mercy of the WBTS), plus they could still take disputed claims before the WC Board.

  If you think the Brenda Upton case and the 25% staff reduction are purely COINCIDENTAL, please enlighten us as to what the real reason is behind this unprecedented reduction.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Randy:
  
  You state:
  
  "But the very fact that from now on they COULD act in this matter as self-insured if they desire kind of protects them from future big losses."
  
  PLEASE EXPLAIN your reasoning.
  
  Do you think that a business that "self-insures" its' WC exposures has less exposure to "future big losses" than do businesses who purchase WC insurance from multi-national Insurance conglomerates?
  
  I would really like the answer to that one; as would 90% of the businesses in the U.S.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  David:
  
  You are correct that the WBTS has an impressive appellate record, and they certainly have an impressive Legal Dept, but in recent years much of this is due to "picking their fights".
  
  Legal certainly did NOT pick this fight. IMO, having a Bethelite going in front of a NY State WCL Judge was probably their "worst nightmare".
  
  The fundamental purpose of WC laws is to make certain that injured "workers" are cared for and not pushed to the side by their "employer". The WC system goes to great lengths to bring an injured person under this umbrella. However, certain "volunteers" have typically been excluded by both law and interpretation. In this instance, we have a Judge and/or a fact situation which appears (from the news article) to get around that exclusion.
  
  Unless this ruling is completely and totally negated, it is possible that some Bethelites may hereafter fall under WC. If so, as I have already stated, this will likely have an unsettling impact on the relationship between the FDS and its "slaves"; an impact which could seep down into the lower levels.
  
  I believe the WBTS knows this, and will not take any chances that such will happen. They will all they can in this instance (less available in a WC fight than in other legal fights), but if any gap is left open, they will dump even more staffers to eliminate such gap.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Eduardo:
  
  You state:
  
  "This situation is extremely unlikely to bein any way related to 'downsizing' at Bethel."
  
  I DISAGREE.
  
  Brooklyn has been "downsizing" for several years now due to a whole host of reasons.
  
  Now, the question is whether this recent significant "downsizing" of staff is "in any way related" to Brenda Upton's claim for Workers Compensation coverage and benefits?
  
  On one hand, you have Brooklyn making the first significant staff reduction since 1915. On the other hand, you have the FIRST TIME a Bethelite has taken a claim for Workers Compensation coverage and benefits to the NY WC Board (as far as we know).
  
  Hmmmm. Coincidence or related?
  
  I believe I will go with "related".
  
  In all likelihood, Legal has been dreading the inevitability of a "pursued" WC claim by a Bethelite for years. Legal pretty much knew they would lose before a WCL Judge - given the right fact situation.
  
  Although I know no more than what appears in the news article, it seems that this Judge is saying that some Bethelites are eligible for WC coverage at least some of the time, if not that many Bethelites are eligible for WC coverage much of the time.
  
  Eduardo, I believe you overlook the overall impact that this (unmodified) ruling would have on the relationship between the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and the heretofore totally subservient "worker bees", if such relationship must change to conform with WC requirements.
  
  I will leave open to discussion here how such a RELATIONSHIP CHANGE would affect not only Bethelites, but how such would likely filter down to other levels of the BORG.
  
  I acknowledge that this Judge's ruling breaks new ground, and threatens many religious orgs in addition to the WatchTower, thus there is a good possibility that he will be reversed by either the Board or in the courts. However, you must also admit that the time may be right for this expansion of WC.
  
  In any case, this will take time, and I don't believe Brooklyn is taking any chances on this one - thus the staff reduction. I think they realize that even a favorable appellate decision will leave open the possibility for some Bethelites to be covered under some circumstances - thus still the entry of WC into "the relationship".
  
  Time will tell.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Runningman:
  
  You are correct. If this ruling is upheld, there will be numerous ramifications past, present, and future. Not necessarily lawsuits, but the whole "workers compensaton" ball of wax - layers of ram ....
  
  This is why Bethelites are being shuttled out of NY state ASAP. Evidently, Legal does not have a great deal of confidence they will get this overturned; but it is possible given the effect on other Religious Orders besides JWs - never underestimate who wil help out the JWs on this behind the scenes.
  
  This is definitely THE STORY to watch over the next couple months.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  Danny:
  
  You are correct. This news article is "genuine" BIG NEWS, and hopefully this thread may be accessed via Google for many months/years to come.
  
  Therefore, while you have time, why not revise the name of this thread in accordance with its level of importance, such as:
  
  "NYJudge Rules Some Bethelites Entitled To Workers Comp Coverage"
  
  Another suggestion: Don't clutter your own threads; especially ones with genuine BIG NEWS.
  
  Another suggestion: Don't HIJACK your own BIG NEWS threads with irrelevent, off-topic stuff that coud be posted elsewhere.
  
  Thanks for your well meaning efforts.
• 
  210

  Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jehovah's loses comp case

  church may be forced to pay millions

  by jess wisloski.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  West70

  You can bet your sweet ... that this lawsuit is the reason behind the recent Bethel "layoffs".
  
  This is "Jimmy Swaggart" and the "Donation Arrangement" all over again.
  
  Legal already knew they were going to lose this one at trial level, and the "layoffs" are either a result of Legal's anticipating losing the Appeal, OR, are done as a "protest" hoping to affect the Appeal.
  
  Without more info, I'm not sure whether "advertising" the "layoffs" harm or help the WatchTower. Tread cautiously for a few days.