West70

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Posts by West70

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  23

  To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: Your First Contact w/ Child Molestation Issue

  by West70 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  mrs. anderson: .

  thank you for replying to my topic on william h. conley, the watch tower society's first president.

  if not for your finding the "treasure" you described, we might not know this fact even today.

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  West70

  Lisa:
  
  There are two points in that paragraph.
  
  First, "who knows" whether the JWs or the Police in their homestate had info about this family's abuse of their children, or whether it was paranoia or what that prompted the father/mother to make such a drastic move. Maybe this JW family of incest practicers really were motivated to spread the WatchTower Kingdom message.
  
  Second, I can't recall what the organization's attitude was back in the late 1970s about JWs making their own decision to suddenly pick up and move to "where the need was great", but at some point around that time there were so many unsavory JW sorts trying to escape problems by moving into isolated territories and "great need" areas that the Society started discouraging JWs from doing so without first getting their approval. I believe this evolved gradually from an unofficial to official thing; more in the form of encouraging JWs to get the ok to move, then get the ok to move to a specific area, etc. I'm really not sure as my association was spotty around this time period.
  
  As far as I know, I do not know you or your family, so I am sure you all are the exception to the following.
  
  I do know for a fact that quite a few worthless JWs arrived in Kentucky from California and other places. Fortunately, it was observing the lives of some of these "jewels" that kept several Kyians from ever being caught up into the JWs.
  
  I do have stories that I can repeat. JWs showing up in KY after filing bankruptcy elsewhere. JW Contractors showing up after ripping off every one they could in their home area thus running out of customers. JWs running from other legal problems. One "pioneer father" scammed three of my relatives in an illegal investment scheme. Numerous such ones would come into the area and leech off already poor KY JWs until they could get no more, and then move to an area where they had fresh pickings. On and on.
  
  If you moved to KY in 1968, surely you saw some of these characters that arrived from then through 75?
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  11

  JW GrandMother Files Federal Lawsuit Against School

  by West70 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a jw grandmother has filed a lawsuit against a california school claiming that her grandson was forced to recite the pledge of allegiance and forced to articipate in holiday activities.

  interestingly, this jw also complains that she personally was prohibited from "witnessing" to other schoolchildren from the watchtower society's "book of bible stories": .

  woman claims grandson faced discrimination.

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  West70

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  4

  Famous JW SCOTUS Plaintiff Eventually Became Ex-JW

  by West70 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  over the past several weeks i believe there have been 2 or 3 topics on "famous jws" or "jws with bios published by the wbts" who eventually departed the organization.

  if one of those folks are reading, i apologize in advance that i cannot remember your name, or that i may not recall your personal info absolutely correct.

  but george maynard's case did after he covered up the state of new hampshire's "live free or die" motto on his vehicles's plates.

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  West70

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  7

  Gilead Missionary Eulogizes JW Deputy Sheriff

  by West70 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just how "jw" was this deputy sheriff?

  obituary .

  kenneth williams .

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  West70

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  20

  Russell Family & Allegheny - Pittsburgh Census Records

  by West70 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been trying to run down some info relating to just exactly when did joseph russell enter into the clothing business, etc., and it finally dawned on me that although joseph lists such as his occupation on the 1850 allegheny census, i do not ever recall seeing a business listing for "j l russell & son" until sometime in the 1860s or 70s.

  if someone would care to shed some light, i will share that there are business listings for other "russells" who were in the clothing business in all/pitt during these same time periods.

  i also suspect that "charles tays russell" may have been joseph's early employer who eventually financed him into his own store?

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  West70

  Noone else want to play?
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  23

  To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: Your First Contact w/ Child Molestation Issue

  by West70 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  mrs. anderson: .

  thank you for replying to my topic on william h. conley, the watch tower society's first president.

  if not for your finding the "treasure" you described, we might not know this fact even today.

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  West70

  The following account is as accurate as I can get it. Some of the info is first-hand, but most is second and third hand. Most of the info that comes from the 1970s and 80s is "to the best of my recollection", since I had no reason to remember such. It is very possible, if not likely, that some of the details are not entirely accurate. The sad fact is that there are literally dozens of JWs who know much more than I about this situation; thus could relate a more detailed and more accurate account. However, until one of those JWs comes forward, this account will at least tell the world what the WBTS does not want told.
  
  Sometime back in the 1970s, a Jehovah's Witness family of "pioneers" moved to where "the need was great" in southeastern Kentucky. As it turns out, this family of JW "needgreaters" may have had a "great need" of their own; they may have needed to get of state as fast as possible to escape the reach of CPS and/or the police.
  
  I do not know whether their old Congregation or Brooklyn knew of their "problem". Neither do I know whether their move to where "the need was great" was sanctioned by the organization. I do know that this family moved nearly 2000 miles, and I have no recollection of the family having any connections whatsoever to Kentucky.
  
  Just as with the "Vernon" family discussed in the other child abuse account, I have always confused members of this family with members of a second JW family in the Circuit. Thus, I can't recall exactly how many children were in this family, or the breakdown according to sex. I'm sure there were at least two daughters, but there may have been more. I'm unsure whether there were males. I seem to recall that this family had some children who either had left home, or were in the process of leaving home around the time of the family's move to Kentucky.
  
  This "pioneer family" eventually became well known in the circuit as a theocratic family who were always trying their hardest to "serve Jah" despite setbacks here and there usually due to financial circumstances. All members of the family seemed as normal as most JW families. I do not recall hearing anyone ever saying anything negative about any of them, with the exception of some criticism of their subsistence standard of living.
  
  Sometime in the mid 1980s, after the last two daughters had married and left home, the father lost his privileges as a Ministerial Servant. Not long thereafter, he and his wife moved to a nearby congregation. When I eventually had an opportunity to ask someone who might know what had happened and who would tell me, I was told that he was reproved because he had habitually been "co-mingling" congregation funds with his own. Supposedly, his business had been so bad one month that he had not been able to catch up at the end of the month, and he was forced to admit to the BOE what he had been doing. That resulted in his loss of privileges. The later move, I was told, was due to the harsh treatment by that BOE.
  
  I bought both "stories" hook, line, and sinker. Everyone in the circuit knew this family struggled financially. Everyone in the circuit also knew that every member of the BOE were absolute jerks; save one. I even recall expressing disappointment over the BOE's failure to exercise appropriate mercy. Lttle did I know that the "excuses" were "cover stories" intended to keep the truth from the JW community.
  
  Over the next ten or so years, I only had occasional opportunity to interact with JWs from this Circuit, but it seemed like every time such occurred the husband of the youngest daughter would be brought up in some negative fashion or other. Over time it seemed as if it was the main job of not only their own congregation, but of the entire circuit, to "assassinate the character" of the youngest daughter's husband. He could do nothing "right", while his wife could do nothing "wrong". Even though he often gave ammunition for criticism, I recall telling someone that despite such, he did not deserve the treatment he continually received from his JW "brothers and sisters". As bad as he was, he wasn't as bad as the JWs made him out to be.
  
  Sometime in the mid 1990s, I was conversing with an Elder from one of the unrelated congregations in the circuit, and sure enough he brought up this youngest daughter of the subject "pioneer family". I recall the Elder repeatedly saying how hard of a life the daughter had had, and how big of a jerk was her husband. He kept repeating the points in different ways in what I later figured out was his way of trying to see if I knew what he knew. However, I did not know what he knew at that time, so he never told me the "secret".
  
  It would be a few years later before some JW assumed that I knew what "everyone knew". Finally, one JW blurted out in a passing manner something about XXXX's being molested as a child. They were 5 sentences down the conversation before I could stop them and ask them to explain the passing "molestation" reference. That JW was surprised that I didn't know; despite their knowing that I had lived outside the Circuit for several years. The JW exaggeratingly said that I must be the only JW in the Circuit that didn't know about XXXX's molestation.
  
  I was told that the "pioneer family" father had had an ongoing "incestual sexual relationship" with XXXX and her older sister(s). I recall not asking too many questions of that JW given the nature of the topic. I later asked questions of others as the opportunity presented itself, and I no longer recall which person told me what detail.
  
  It is my understanding that multiple daughters were abused over many years. The abuse started so early that it was accepted as a normal part of life. No one I talked with had even a guess as to how a JW child could listen to what was said regarding fornication and adultery at the meetings and not understand that what the father was doing to them was "wrong", and thus report the abuse.
  
  It is understood that the mother pled ignorance, although I heard others express wonder at how such could go on in the home for years without her knowing.
  
  However, until the youngest daughter got married, she and evidently her older sister(s) had maintained the secret. I was told that even then it was not the youngest daughter who told the elders. It was her husband. Yes, the very person whose character the entire circuit had been trying to assassinate. Since when? Since he had went to the elders back in the 1980s. After he married the youngest daughter, it apparently came to his attention that his wife was not a novice when it came to sex. She eventually told him about her incestuous relationship with her father, and he went to the elders.
  
  Other than what I related above about the father's reproof and his moving to a nearby congregation, I don't remember what else happened back at that time in the 1980s. I do know that the character assassination of the husband started soon thereafter. I don't know if the husband had threatened to go to the authorities, or whether he even may have done so. It is possible that he may have done so, and nothing was done by the local prosecutor. I knew the local prosecutor at that time, and given the passage of time and likely unwillingness of witness cooperation, he would not have pursued it. The daughter would likely have even denied it in order to protect "Jah's name" (ie, the WBTS's name). Whatever happened, there was no non-JW public disclosure and certainly no prosection.
  
  As for the other victim(s) [older sister(s)], I don't know what occurred with them. They moved elsewhere that I don't know.
  
  I have also wondered whether any of the sons were abused?
  
  Whatever the husband did to peeve off the WBTS back when he reported the incest to the BOE, he finally was "assassinated". His wife and daughters finally separated from him in the late 90s, and they divorced a few years thereafter. She received the full support of elders. I've heard he was DF'ed or DA'ed. He moved, so I don't know.
  
  I never had the courage to broach the subject with any of the "actors". I was told by others that the daughter has discussed the abuse with several others in the circuit, despite the fact that it was supposed to be kept quiet.
  
  I also heard one remark which made me suspect that the abuse had been discussed with the elders throughout the circuit by the CO. I don't know if this was in an elder's meeting, one-on-one, or during the regular CO visit, or if fact it did occur. All seem to know about it, regardless.
  
  So, there you have it. A JW family which practiced incest for years. Numerous JWs knew about it after it was disclosed in the 1980s. The probability is that it was never reported to the authorities.
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  20

  Russell Family & Allegheny - Pittsburgh Census Records

  by West70 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been trying to run down some info relating to just exactly when did joseph russell enter into the clothing business, etc., and it finally dawned on me that although joseph lists such as his occupation on the 1850 allegheny census, i do not ever recall seeing a business listing for "j l russell & son" until sometime in the 1860s or 70s.

  if someone would care to shed some light, i will share that there are business listings for other "russells" who were in the clothing business in all/pitt during these same time periods.

  i also suspect that "charles tays russell" may have been joseph's early employer who eventually financed him into his own store?

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  West70

  Concerning my last post, I did find an "A.L. Russell" in later decades, so that was not a typo, although one can still wonder if Joe L. might not of had a connection.
  
  There were lots of Russells doing business in the area by the late 1870s: shoe stores, boiler inspector, metal works, etc. Surely, some of these might have been relatives.
  
  No sign of a "divorced Eliza" through 1877.
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  87

  To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

  by West70 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

  mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

  i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

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  West70

  Mrs. Anderson:
  
  I just spotted that the Riters, Conleys, and Russells were all listed in the Pitt area "Blue Book" for 1895, so maybe that is your basis for your remarks above re Russell being an accepted part of the 1890s business community.
  
  However, I will still stick with my comments above regarding the "two banks deals".
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  20

  Russell Family & Allegheny - Pittsburgh Census Records

  by West70 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been trying to run down some info relating to just exactly when did joseph russell enter into the clothing business, etc., and it finally dawned on me that although joseph lists such as his occupation on the 1850 allegheny census, i do not ever recall seeing a business listing for "j l russell & son" until sometime in the 1860s or 70s.

  if someone would care to shed some light, i will share that there are business listings for other "russells" who were in the clothing business in all/pitt during these same time periods.

  i also suspect that "charles tays russell" may have been joseph's early employer who eventually financed him into his own store?

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  West70

  With regard to Joseph L. Russell giving his occupation as "Grocer" for the 1860 Philly census, it might be pertinent that there was a wholesale Grocer operating in the Pitt/All area in the early 1850s called "Russell and Johnson". An "A. L. Russell" (typo -- ???) operated one of the two locations in 1852.
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  20

  Russell Family & Allegheny - Pittsburgh Census Records

  by West70 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been trying to run down some info relating to just exactly when did joseph russell enter into the clothing business, etc., and it finally dawned on me that although joseph lists such as his occupation on the 1850 allegheny census, i do not ever recall seeing a business listing for "j l russell & son" until sometime in the 1860s or 70s.

  if someone would care to shed some light, i will share that there are business listings for other "russells" who were in the clothing business in all/pitt during these same time periods.

  i also suspect that "charles tays russell" may have been joseph's early employer who eventually financed him into his own store?

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  West70

  The specificity of Ann Eliza's and the children's birthdates, dates of death, and causes of death certainly gives one pause to dispute such, except for the fact that the BS author then proceeds to spew the BS "BS" just as vehemently as JWs spew the WT "BS". I do not take seriously any supposed WatchTower/Russell historian who swallows Russell's "BS" that he did not know who Nelson Barbour was nor that he had never read Barbour's Magazine prior to he Philly trip in 1875. Anyone who buys that is wasting their time investigating anything else about Russell. They should simply let other's do the research and investigation and wait on being fed the results. By 1875, Russell had "ran" with the very bastions of "second Adventism" (Storrs, Stetson, Wendell, are those he admits to) and the development of his theology makes it apparent that he was reading everything he could get his hands on by not only Adventists, but other "radicals" also. In 1875, Nelson Barbour was the best known Second Adventist in the U.S., and
  during the pre-1873 prediction period his magazine had a greater circulation than all the other ACC magazines combined. It is the "National Enquirer" of its day.
  
  Then, there is the old saying "that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree".
  
  Maybe Russell researchers need to spend more time looking at Joseph Russell to figure out how he managed to turn out a son who was as big a nut as he was.
  
  I would like to see a photo of Eliza's 1861 headstone, as well as those of the children. Even then, such could have been faked in the 1860s, or even later by the Russells or someone with an interest in maintaining the Russell's "story".
  
  It is even suspicious that Joseph and Eliza had 3 children to die (not counting the disappearance of "Jane Russell") between 1855 and 1860. This family was not living out in the wilderness somewhere, and each child died separately under separate circumstances. Maybe Joseph separated from Eliza and moved back to Pitt to rear Taze and Mae for a "reason".
  
  By the way, if Eliza had mental problems, that might explain why "Jane" was living with them in Philly as a teenager in 1860, but not as a 5 year old child in Allegheny in 1850. Philly relatives may have kept Jane when Joe and Eliza went back to Pitt. (It seems that Joe and Eliza may have moved back and forth several times between Philly and Pitt in the 1840s-60s. That raises even more Qs.)
  
  I simply am not ready to dismiss that quickly the "Eliza Russell" who shows up out of nowhere in the 1880 Pittsburgh census. Her age matches exactly what "Ann Eliza" reported to the 1860 census taker. This 59 year old woman reports that she was born in Ireland, as was "Ann Eliza". She has no occupation or noted means of support; no family living in her home; and no boarders (which would be the typical means of support for an older, unmarried female). She is not a widow, but describes herself as "Divorced", which is somewhat unusual in that day and age for an older woman, since legitimate situations were labeled "separation", so the ex-husband would be legally bound to continue to pay "maintanance". Again, if Joseph did not have a "pure" Divorce, he would have had to get such before he could have married his own "Rose Ball" in 1879.
  
  This opportunity to get his hands on a young female 1/3 his age might have been enough to motivate Joseph to bring Eliza back to Pitt, and pay her off completely with a final settlement sufficient to get her to agree to a pure Divorce, so he could finally re-marry.
  
  This would explain why 45 year old Joseph, with two young children (9 year old Chuck and 4? year old Mae) did not remarry after 1861. Would not most men in the 1860s have wanted a wife to help rear those 2 young children? That is, assuming he was eligible to re-marry.
  
  This might even possibly explain why the clothing stores were sold off in the late 1870s. I'll stretch this even further. Maybe Joe had his eye on Emma long before Chuck rushed into a celibate marriage with Emma's sister. (Let's hurry up and do nothing.) Maybe Joe had decided that he wanted to marry Emma back in 1875-8, but he knew that he could not marry her without first getting a full Divorce from Eliza. The only problem with a Divorce is that such would require a final financial settlement with Eliza. Now, Joe was not about to give Eliza 50% of his share of the clothing stores. So, he and Chuck dissolve the business, hide most of the assets, and then go about the Divorce.
  
  Of course, Joe and Chuck were too moral for such a complicated scheme. Right!!!!