Posts by circare

31

hello

by Latte in

hi

circare

Hi Latte

'Circare' is Latin and means to go round, explore, search.

Btw neyank
I thought your name was anyyank, not N E yank.

46

Prophecy -- Can It Have More Than One Fulfillment?

by MDS in

jw
friends

the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.

it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.

the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.

circare

MDS again thank you taking the time to answer.

As there is a little reading to do here, and other duties that call upon my time, may I get back to you with my response?

PS. Sorry I missed talking with you in the chat room. I was having a few 'technical difficulties' and could not keep up with the conversation. cc

46

Prophecy -- Can It Have More Than One Fulfillment?

by MDS in

jw
friends

the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.

it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.

the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.

circare

MDS I do thank you for responding and for the information provided.

JW's are taught the concept of prophecy having a minor and major fulfilment. What basis would there be for considering a third or further fulfilment?

83

God Changing Chosen Peoples

by eyes_opened in

jw
friends

my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.

he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.

jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?

circare

Excuse MDS but what happened here?

bjc said

He can have as many fulfillments as He wishes.

larc said

could you find a prophesy in the Bible that has been fulfilled many times and list each of the fulfillments?

MDS said

Does this mean, you do not believe prophecy has any merit today? ....Do you have more confidence, now in Science, than in the Bible itself? .....what do you what me to do about it? Give you more faith? .....and now we've got to convince you that the Bible is God's Word?

Larc asked a logical question that deserved an honest answer. I also wanted to know the answer to that question. Larc did not say he did not believe prophecy had merit. Larc did not say he had more faith in science than the bible. Larc did not say he did not have faith in the bible or in God.

MDS why waste time in a diatribe against Larc instead of answering the question he asked. Do you not think the answer could have been faith strengthening? (Note: I did not say 'faith giving' but 'faith strengthening')

Edited by - circare on 28 January 2001 7:26:52

87

looking for friends to talk with

by ctisi in

jw
friends

hi all brothers and sisters.

i am simply looking for friends to talk with over email or icq.

i am adjusting to living alone after my wife left me and then was disfellowshipped.

circare

Dear TR and Red,

I have watched this discussion with much interest and (ROF), and believe that you have both voiced the merits of your respective beasts well. However, having been thrown from both types of steeds myself, I wonder that there is much appeal in either. ???

Seven shame on you! You are letting that naughty waiting lead you astray! Again!

(Thankyou all for this most entertaining repartee.)

92

Reflections

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

circare

Red thanks for those ideas. We have been involved with some of the things you mentioned.

We along with our children have been involved in community projects and environmental issues. I have helped with literacy programs. My daughter would dearly love to foster homeless animals but we don't have the resources to do this at present. (Some of these things we did while we were active JW's too).

It is very hard to become passionate about these things when the people you work with have their own hidden agendas that come ahead of whatever is trying to be achieved. The meetings are so terribly boring and go on for hours without much substance, and the precious time and effort you give achieves so little.

I am not intending to be negative, I guess I just haven't discovered any causes that engender a lasting passion yet.

92

Reflections

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

circare

AhHah I agree, even as I was typing I was thinking that it really comes down to example. This is probably where we are failing and I haven't worked out how to overcome this yet. Thanks for all those thoughtful suggestions. Our intention was "to give our children all that is positive about the JW experience with none of the negatives." Somewhere though we have not managed this.

My parents helped me in all those ways you mentioned.

'We can assist them to develop a healthy sense of themselves that is not dependent on the validation of an organization. We can allow them to properly focus much of their energy on their own personal development and education without any of the guilt that we had being raised as a JW. We can assist them to broaden their horizons and reach for their own dreams.'

I was not raised to look to the organisation for validation, only to my relationship with Jehovah. I was never made to feel guilty for any efforts at education, (members of my family continue to further their own education in various fields while being active witnesses). My family assisted me to reach for my dreams, it just happened that my dreams were all involved in 'witness pursuits'. Would they have been so helpful if I hadn't of my own volition chosen to be an active witness? I don't know really. I think they probably wouldn't have initially.

However, I do remember a time in my teens when I became very depressed by events happening in my life, (my best friend had been disfellowshipped, a friend had been killed in a car accident, another friend had become schizophrenic and was in a terrible mess, and another friend seemed to be determined to self destruct no matter how much time and encouragement I gave him.). I became very dispirited and had slacked off in meeting attendance and field service. My father approached me and after letting me rant against the 'unfairness' of life and the inadequacies of the truth, the organisation, the publications, the elders, Jehovah and myself, his parting words were, "Be a witness, or don't be witness, but whatever, you have to live your life."

I would like to pass this philosophy on to my children.

Edited by - circare on 13 November 2000 0:53:45

92

Reflections

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

circare

This is such an interesting discussion and has covered a number of good points. It has stirred my grey cells to think of things from different angles and has mentioned issues that I currently 'struggle' with. I wish I had the time to respond to the many things mentioned and I thank everyone for their comments and good thoughts that have allowed this discussion to develop.

However the point Path mentioned about bringing up children without the 'truth' is a point very close to home for me at present. I am in this position and I am worried about this. My husband and I have been unable to give our children any direction or purpose in their lives and I feel that this is a very sad thing. They are nice principled young people but….. we have managed to teach them how to look at things 'with their eyes open' and 'read between the lines' so that now they are able to see hypocrisy. The trouble is that they have become cynical and have little purpose or direction in their outlook.

While my husband adamantly does not want them to give their life over to an organisation,(and up until now neither have I), now I am not so sure. I sometimes think that to believe in something that gives a purpose, direction and usefulness in life may be better than a 'nothingness'. I look at their cousins and other relatives that are 'busy in the truth' and they are happy people using their time to help others, and going to bed at night with the belief and satisfaction that they are using their life in a purposeful and meaningful way. I would have liked to have given my children a 'gift' like this. In our effort to help them to not 'live a lie' we have also 'robbed' them of some good things too.

How I wish I had some of the 'precious things' that my parents gave me as I was growing up 'in the truth' to give to my children. I have no idea what to give in place of these.

Perhaps this is too far off topic and I should have posted a different thread? Sorry if I have interrupted another line of thought you were all developing here.

7

To those I love-still asleep

by Seven in

if i listen long enough to you.

i'll find a way to believe that it's all true.

knowing that you lied, straight faced while i cried.

circare

Hi AhHah. My condolences to your Mother, it is surely a hard time for her right now.

For you too AhHah. These particular occasions in life are emotionally exhausting anyway, I think, without the added complication of uncomfortable family relationships. You sound as though you have been doing plenty of positive things to smooth the way for your family to 'cross the bridges' when they are ready; that is about all one can do I guess.

Relationships sure complicate life don't they! Then again I don't think I would like to be on an island alone for too long either. Well perhaps alone with Har….. Whoops better delete that thought!

They say 'times heals all wounds'. Nice to have the company of those on db to help wile away some of that time isn't it?

Edited by - circare on 25 October 2000 2:5:14

7

To those I love-still asleep

by Seven in

if i listen long enough to you.

i'll find a way to believe that it's all true.

knowing that you lied, straight faced while i cried.

circare

You're absolutely right here Path, there are no guarantees for a 'happy outcome'. I am sure we have both seen enough families where things have not worked out very positively.

I hesitate to offer anything more than understanding and sympathy here Path, because you have many times demonstrated in your posts your fine thinking abilities. I don't really think I can offer anything that you could not, or have not, already worked out for yourself. However, because of the emotional involvement, we can sometimes forget or miss something that at any other time we would see obviously. It is for that reason only that I offer these suggestions.

Do not wait for your parents to make the moves. Make sure that there is middle ground for them to meet you on.

To do this you will need to be patient with them and persevere. Continue keeping in touch on a regular basis. Make it very brief each time. Do not get into any discussions about 'the truth'. If it comes up and you can't avoid it, don't tear down the organisation or their beliefs, but find positive things to say about it for their sake, if you can. Always be cheerful and 'upbeat' when in their presence if possible. Show them that your life has not 'gone down the toilet'. Let them see that in other areas of your life you are still reasonable and thinking logically.

Above all show them that you have your christian principals because that is who you are, and that you have no intentions of behaving in any less a way than a fine, upstanding son who loves his family. They need to know that you still respect them and love them, and will not ignore your normal family duties towards them regardless of their behaviour towards you.

Hope I haven't offended by stating the obvious here Path. (My kids accuse me of this all the time.)

Edited by - circare on 25 October 2000 2:2:44