Every lawyer who has ever sued a corporations has stated that money = change. It's one of the most powerful ways to encourage change. You can't put a corporation behind bars. If religion hides behind the first amendment, then attacking their source of power (money) is the best way to pursue change from the outside.
tim3l0rd
JoinedPosts by tim3l0rd
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67
'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality
by telemetry11 inthe court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.
"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".
"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.
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100
Exposing one's identity. When?
by kairos ini've been toying with the idea of just coming out and posting my name and location as an attempt to be available to locals that secretly browse the forum that have known me for up to 25 years.
( "reaching out", so to speak ).
i'm not da'd or df'd, so this most certainly could end in a dramatic confrontation.
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tim3l0rd
I think the reason for the change in the kingdom hall design is just to match the ugly logos. The logo horribly clashes with every kingdom hall that I've seen them on. -
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Turning disassociation around on the org
by tim3l0rd inrecently i was researching the scripture used to justify why da'd ones were to be shunned the same as df'd ones and decided that this could easily be turned around.
they use 2 john 9-11.. 9 everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the christ does not have god.+ the one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the father and the son.
10 if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.
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tim3l0rd
Thanks leaving_quietly! That's another scripture I need to add to my list of reasons I'm leaving. -
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Would you warn your neighbors if a child molester lived on your street?
by Stealth injust found out that someone who lives 4 doors down was convicted of molesting a 4 year old child twice.
the second time was after he was arrested and released on bond from the first arrest.
having two 4 year old children living in my home, i am concerned.
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tim3l0rd
If he's on the sex offender registry, you could pass a flyer around with the web address of the registry and strongly suggest that everyone check their neighborhood. This would probably be better than coming right out and stating that so-and-so is a child molester. Plus they get to see it with their own eyes and it's not just Stealth down the streets word. -
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Turning disassociation around on the org
by tim3l0rd inrecently i was researching the scripture used to justify why da'd ones were to be shunned the same as df'd ones and decided that this could easily be turned around.
they use 2 john 9-11.. 9 everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the christ does not have god.+ the one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the father and the son.
10 if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.
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tim3l0rd
Recently I was researching the scripture used to justify why DA'd ones were to be shunned the same as DF'd ones and decided that this could easily be turned around. They use 2 John 9-11.
9 Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.+ The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.
Reading this, it's very easy to apply this to the org since their own publications have many examples of them pushing ahead of the teaching of the Christ. While the org can argue that they aren't prophets (even though they act like it and have even used the word to describe themselves), they can't argue that they haven't pushed ahead since many of their teachings have subsequently been reversed. The original teaching of 1914, for example, is a clear indication of pushing ahead. Also the types and anti-types teachings that were recently changed, organ transplants, Jesus coming in 1914 vs Jesus presence in 1914 all are easy examples of the org "pushing ahead".
I thought this might be a useful reasoning to use with JWs who say that the GB are not prophets. I shared it with my wife (still-in and I'm still going for now) and she didn't deny that the org could be guilty of pushing ahead.
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baptism regional Convention
by antes8080 inhello friends during the weekend i was in the san diego regional convention and the number of baptisim was way down.. there were 51 who got baptise thats the lowest number i ever seen, the attendance was 14,000 plus .
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tim3l0rd
7 men and 12 women. At least the ratio of women to men is staying the same.
Growth has been in the foreign language congregations for a long while. Less access to older publications, a less educated group, immigrants working for peanuts, all these things make these people ripe for plucking by the WBT$. I've even heard still-in bethelites admit that growth in the US would be negative if they only counted English congregations or separated the language groups on the annual report.
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New (non)-Witnessing Model
by berrygerry inso, one of the kids on reddit posted this video - an evangelist trying to witness to guardians of the cart.
(both sides are fairly respectful imo).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwbc9c4ajly&feature=youtu.be.
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tim3l0rd
Bump... Just curious if anyone had a laugh at the inept ASL sister. -
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New (non)-Witnessing Model
by berrygerry inso, one of the kids on reddit posted this video - an evangelist trying to witness to guardians of the cart.
(both sides are fairly respectful imo).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwbc9c4ajly&feature=youtu.be.
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tim3l0rd
In case anyone wanted to know what was being said in the ASL conversation in the background, here is the interpretation. It's somewhat funny especially because the sister does not explain what Eddie was saying.
It's obvious that these 2 were there from an ASL congregation. From experience I know that witnessing to the deaf community is so different than English that these two were completely not prepared. Most of the deaf community know very little about the Bible as English is their 2nd language (ASL being their first) and the grammar and even some of the vocabulary is very different between ASL and English. They rely on the interpreters at church or family to tell them what the Bible says. So preaching to a deaf person is very different. That's not always the case, but it has been my experience many times.
Anyway on to the translation:
Eddie walks up says, "Hi..." Sister starts by interpreting what he is saying.
Sister: Hi, how are you doing?
Eddie: I got a question for you.
Sister: I have a question.
Eddie: Do you have the answer?
Sister: (laughs) Maybe...
Eddie's talking about tie and cool suit
Sister: Cool
Eddie presents hypothetical about being shot and having 2 minutes to live.
Deaf woman: Hey, what's he saying?
Sister: He wants to know. He has a question. He gives an example. Another (she signed any, but I think she meant other) person (signs people) shoots him. He falls and says, "I need help! HELP! HELP!" But he wants know.... (looks as if she's struggling to interpret or doesn't want to)
Deaf woman: Call 9-1-1
Sister: Yes that (laughing)
Deaf woman: Call 9-1-1
Sister: Yes. I (or he - she just signs KNOW THAT - it's just a way to acknowledge) knows that
Sister: He means what?... I hope you know... Do you see those people other there? Hey, the "abortion wrong" (people - not signed but implied)? He's with them.
Deaf woman: Ohhhhh
Sister: I don't know
Deaf woman: hey, if something goes terribly wrong like a fire and you're not sure what happened or to do, call 9-1-1
Sister: Ahhh yes.
Deaf woman: (She gestures that the sister should tell him)
Sister: (seemingly ignoring gesture) Maybe sometimes you do what? (That's literally what she signed, not sure what she meant)
Deaf woman (to Eddie): Call 9-1-1
Eddie: Hang on
Sister: He said wait.
Eddie finishes his death example and asks where the Bible tells us that we get another chance.
Deaf woman: (can't see her signing, but based on the sister's response I'm guessing she asked the time)
Sister: 1:41
Eddie confronts JW about witnessing
Deaf woman: What's up? What's he saying?
Sister doesn't reply and after a while it seems that the deaf woman says, "Nice to meet you, bye." (implied based on sister's response
Sister: It's nice to meet you. See you... (Deaf woman signs at same time)
Deaf woman: (Hands are masked by Eddie's head and the only sign I can make out is) .... come....
Sister: See you tomorrow, bye!
Deaf woman: (Again can't see hands)
Sister: 2 (maybe they made an appt for an RV?)
Deaf woman: (Hands still masked, but looks like she says the following) See you at 2.
Sister: Nice to meet you
Deaf woman: Yes
Sister: See you later
Deaf woman: Yes see you later
Sister: Bye
Deaf woman: Bye
To the best of my ability that is the conversion. Have fun!
timelord
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If shunning was a conscience matter?
by aintenoughwiskey inwhat do you think the reaction would be?
i would say a small portion (single digit) would walk.
no loss for the borg, they weren't donating anyway.
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tim3l0rd
sir82,
They may not be in it for the numbers, but they certainly have relaxed other "understandings" to improve numbers before. Examples would be the change to allow alternative civil service, allowing blood fractions, even reducing hour requirements for pioneers and aux pioneers. The civil service change was probably due to pressure from governments or to gain acceptance as a recognized religion in some countries. The blood change was probably also to stem the tide of those that required medication and inoculations that were derived from blood. The reduction of hours allowed them to retain more pioneers in an increasingly expensive world and to gain more as well.
I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility that one of the GB may push for a new "understanding" at some point if governments start to find fault with the shunning policy or if it's a barrier or becomes a barrier to acceptance as a religion in certain countries.
timelord
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If shunning was a conscience matter?
by aintenoughwiskey inwhat do you think the reaction would be?
i would say a small portion (single digit) would walk.
no loss for the borg, they weren't donating anyway.
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tim3l0rd
To be honest, if I hadn't been shunned after being df'd, I would have been less questioning of their doctrines and less likely to wake up. I know I would have still come back, because I was a true believer. It would have taken me a lot longer to get to the point of questioning doctrine.
They may have an initial drop, but I think they would recover and maybe grow in the long run (especially if they drop the blood doctrine as well).