hello,.
i am currently in a discussion with a jw about the governing body.. i have read alot of articles regarding it, however whenever i bring up what i have read, i am refuted with scripture, such as acts 15, where they say there was a governing body, who sent out elders and men etc.. does anyone have a website that i may not know of, that has answers to what they refute with?
or any help here or good thought provoking questions to respond with would be much appreciated.. thank you kindly.
Ask an elder where in their bible it shows in 1935 the door to heaven was shut, no wt b.s., the bible, NWT bible, they can't.
Mr.logic,
That teaching was abandoned years ago. I forget when, but "new light" opened the door for many more "anointed". The number of "anointed" has been rapidly increasing year over year.
hello,.
i am currently in a discussion with a jw about the governing body.. i have read alot of articles regarding it, however whenever i bring up what i have read, i am refuted with scripture, such as acts 15, where they say there was a governing body, who sent out elders and men etc.. does anyone have a website that i may not know of, that has answers to what they refute with?
or any help here or good thought provoking questions to respond with would be much appreciated.. thank you kindly.
It's not a waste of time. I'd be trapped if not for some questions my brother posed to me. Keep trying.
Ask him why they don't celebrate birthdays or mothers day? (Hint: answer is pagan roots)
Then why do they allow wedding rings, wedding cake, etc that are also rooted in pagan worship?
Questions like this are what started to open my mind. Definitely look at jwfacts.com. There are some good ideas there. Just don't tell him where you got the info. He'll shut down if he suspects it came from an "Apostate" website. Try to use things from JW publications or news items like the Candace Conti or Jose Lopez child molestation cases.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/maincasescreen.cfm?dist=0&doc_id=2109889&doc_no=s226656&search=party&start=1&query_partylastnameororg=watchtower bible and tract.
started 5/27/2015.
It does matter. Are you saying that the Defendant is guilty of the accusation because you know that he is guilty?
Or is that what you like?
Fisherman,
You took 2 words out of my reply and ignored the rest. I made no statement as to his guilt towards Candace in that reply. My reply was about the defendants that were named, the congregation and the organization. It's obvious that you don't want to concede your point even though you are in the minority and the court disagrees with your position. Your replies show that your more interested in trolling or confrontation than reaching an agreement.
This is my last reply to you on this topic.
Good day. :)
the watchtower would never claim that they want child molesters in their congregations.
no 'respectable' organization would.
that doesnt mean they are doing anything to prevent it though.
Is there actually anything out there to prove or hint to the existence of such a list? (besides hearsay by individuals on ex-jw sites or idiotic el-dubs . . . no offense)
If so, can you direct us towards that info? Thanks.
Yes, read up on the Jose Lopez case. It was admitted that the information exists in a database, but WT refused to provide it. https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-claims/
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/maincasescreen.cfm?dist=0&doc_id=2109889&doc_no=s226656&search=party&start=1&query_partylastnameororg=watchtower bible and tract.
started 5/27/2015.
Did he admit to abusing Plaintiff?
Doesn't matter. This is civil court, not criminal court. The plaintiff was able to show that the congregation knew of his past and still put him in situations that would allow him to take advantage of other children.
We have proof that he repeated his perversion as he was convicted later of molesting another child.
when it finally clicked,.
and you realized there was no 1914, there was no generation that would see the end of a wicked system, there was no paradise around the corner, .
what went through you mind?.
What went through you mind?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDGE!
Did you break down and cry?
Broke down, but didn't cry. Still feel broken as I have to waste time in this cult while I try to get my wife and maybe some other family members out.
Did you feel like killing someone?
No. That's not my personality. I wouldn't mind violently shaking someone though. :)
Did it take weeks to recover, or months, or years, or are you still recovering and see no end in sight?
Too recent (3 months or so). No end in sight until family wakes up.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/maincasescreen.cfm?dist=0&doc_id=2109889&doc_no=s226656&search=party&start=1&query_partylastnameororg=watchtower bible and tract.
started 5/27/2015.
Fisherman,
I'm going to reply, only because I can't let your comment stand. My conviction of the accused is based on his prior record. He admitted to abusing one girl prior to Candace and was convicted of abusing another after Candace. That man is scum. While he was not convicted of abusing Candace, his known record indicates that he very likely did. Civil court is routinely used when justice cannot be had in criminal court. The OJ trials are a great example of how criminal court failed to produce justice, but civil court procured some justice for the family. Also, you can't take a business to criminal court, so civil court is the only justice to be had when an entire organization shares the blame.
Candace's main reason for taking this to civil court was to point out how the policies of JWs allow known child molesters to continue their depraved practice. She proved that. He was an admitted child molester and yet the elders put him together with at least one other child. Therefore, the congregation and, by extension, the organization, since the elders follow the guidelines set out by the organization, is to blame for allowing him the opportunity to molest another child. Civil court is not about proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. The plaintiff, many times, only needs to show that something likely occurred. Civil court allows for grey areas and varying degrees of guilt (by way of monetary punishment).
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/maincasescreen.cfm?dist=0&doc_id=2109889&doc_no=s226656&search=party&start=1&query_partylastnameororg=watchtower bible and tract.
started 5/27/2015.
Fisherman,
Do you have some special insight as to why Candace Conti didn't want her abuser to testify in court? You cannot possibly put yourself in her shoes unless you've experienced what she has. From what I have read, facing the abuser is one of the worst things that an abused person will ever do. So it is very likely that she did not want to ever see his face again and therefore came to an agreement that allowed her to not confront that lowlife scum. Her lawyer obviously thought that they had enough evidence to take this case to trial.
I do side with you that Watchtower has a legal right to defend themselves and should do so to the fullest extent possible. It also makes perfect sense from a business standpoint. As others have said, if this decision stands as it is, the Society stands to lose a lot because of the legal precedent that is set. That's the reason that they and other businesses prefer to settle out of court. They can pay out money, never admit fault, put a gag order on the plaintiff, and no legal precedent is set. It's morally wrong, but businesses (including Watchtower) are unencumbered by morals.
i hesitated to do this thread as i thought it was the same article flipper did, but its not the same article.
here's flip's thread for those who missed it.
it's a must read.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/207377/1/april-15th-wt-wt-society-says-obeying-us-is-same-as-obeying-god.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/workinglife/jehovahs-witnesses-still-going-door-to-door-in-a-closed-door-world/2231499.
st. petersburg like any group of spirited salesmen, this crew swaps stories about the big scores, those times when people couldn't wait to buy what they were selling..
"we were out in service on sept. 11," remembers power-suited jonathan burns, his colleagues nodding.
