closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
wishing you a very happy birthday, dear angharad...and many more to come.
hope you have a nice celebration with your family.
we all appreciate all your efforts, too, in helping simon in keeping this forum going.
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
http://www.msnbc.com/news/730491.asp?pne=msn&cp1=1 .
legal child porn under fire .
the "lil amber" web site featured a 12-year-old florida girl who suddenly retired from her career as an internet "model" in december, only to be replaced by a new amber.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/730491.asp?pne=msn&cp1=1
‘Legal child porn’ under fire
The "Lil Amber" Web site featured a 12-year-old Florida girl who suddenly retired from her career as an Internet "model" in December, only to be replaced by a new Amber.
By Mike Brunker
MSNBC
March 28 — The photos of 12-year-old “Amber” cavorting in a swimsuit and various skimpy outfits wouldn’t have raised so much as an eyebrow if they had been posted on a family home page. But on lilamber.com — one of a growing number of “preteen model” sites operating in the legal gray area between innocent imagery and child pornography — they have drawn the attention of the Justice Department and prompted a congressman to declare war on the “reckless endangerment” of such kids by their parents and Web site operators.“THIS IS AN unacceptable way for a child to earn lunch money … performing like a circus animal,” Rep. Mark Foley said of the sites, which feature girls as young as 6 wearing revealing clothing and striking sexually suggestive poses but display no nudity or overt sexual material that would run afoul of child pornography laws. “It sickens you that a parent would have such disregard for their own child.”
Foley, R-Fla., was informed by the Justice Department earlier this month that, at his request, it had instructed the FBI to review the pre-teen sites in order to determine whether they are breaking any laws. Foley also asked a House Judiciary subcommittee to hold hearings on the subject, which would allow parents of the girls and the Web site operators to be subpoenaed.
“Lil Amber,” the site that touched a raw nerve for Foley, is one of dozens of preteen “model” sites that have popped up on the Internet over the last few years.
MOST CUSTOMERS ARE ADULTS
There is ample evidence that the sites, which sell photos and videotapes to members, cater primarily to adults, very few of whom are in the market to hire models. Many — if not most — customers are sexually interested in children, and some are pedophiles, according to law enforcement officials and children’s advocates.
“This is legal child porn,” said Ken Lanning, a retired FBI agent who studied deviant sexual behavior during most of his 30 years with the bureau. “It’s not against the law, but it’s exciting and stimulating and arousing for people with a certain deviant interest.”
Officials at Webe Web Inc., the Davie, Fla., Web-hosting company behind a half-dozen pre-teen “model” sites, including “Lil Amber,” have previously denied that the sites cater to pedophiles or constitute child pornography. But after a rash of bad publicity — including an investigation by NBC’s Miami affiliate, WTVJ/NBC 6, that revealed many previously unreported details about “Amber,” her family and the company — they are no longer doing so.
“No one here is going to talk about it anymore,” said a man who answered the phone at Webe Web’s offices but declined to give his name.‘MOMMY’ DEFENDS SITE
But in an e-mail conversation between MSNBC.com and an individual who says she is the mother of another pre-teen model known as “Jessi the Kid,” the respondent said the site was created to help her daughter fulfill her dream of becoming an actress and was no more racy than ads for fashion lines such as Benetton that appear every day in national publications. Furthermore, she said, the media are focusing only on the revealing outfits and missing the other material on the site geared to appeal to other kids.
“Our site is filled with so many wonderful things that any kid would be happy to see and browse through,” said the respondent, who signed her e-mail as “Mommy.” “Why are you stuck on the few photos we have of her in her custom-made clothing? Have you seen the great updates where she shows you how to make an excellent salmon dish using only tinfoil to bake it with? What about the very fun and informative software reviews that took her months to put together? Any [of] her Yoga video/pics!??”
But fan discussion groups on Yahoo! and Internet news groups support the contention that the child models’ most ardent fans are adults, said Scott Zamost, a WTVJ producer who spent four months investigating the “Lil Amber” site and Webe Web, which also hosts several adult porn sites.
“You could tell by the postings that these weren’t kids who were viewing the sites. Some people were posting poetry,” Zamost said, adding that “Lil Amber’s” fan club at one time had more than 9,000 members.
A CHILLING QUIP
Likewise, on an Internet news group for “girl-lovers,” a subscriber who identified himself as “Rainbow” posted a brief positive review of the new “Jessithekid” Web site in December 1999, then signed off with this chilling quip: “Anyone for 10-ish? (groan).”
Foley, who is co-founder of a congressional caucus devoted to issues surrounding missing and exploited children, learned of the pre-teen sites late last year when WTVJ asked about them.
“I was outraged when I first saw it because it’s being passed off as some career-building opportunity or [raising money] to apply for college,” he said, referring to statements on several of the sites saying the proceeds will go toward the girls’ college educations. “To me, it borders on pornography and indentured servitude.”
After purchasing a membership to “Lil Amber” site, which cost $25 for the first month and $19.95 a month thereafter, MSNBC.com reviewed dozens of photos and purchased a videotape for an additional amount to determine how far the site’s creators were willing to go.
In all instances, the material stopped well short of what is popularly considered child porn. The shots showed “Amber” (which is not her real name) in bathing suits, short shorts and skimpy halter tops, but never revealed any genitalia or her breasts. Some of the photos were disturbing — such as one in which she appeared to have been rolled in clay — but others could just as well have been from a backyard birthday party.
MTV MEETS BAD HOME MOVIES
“Video #4 — Amber Models Summer Fashions” was like a cross between MTV and bad home movies. “Amber” spent most of the hourlong tape energetically dancing in front of a fireplace in a living room, with a placard reading “Jesus” and a family photo on the mantelpiece and a dog statuette alongside.
She “modeled” a dozen different outfits during the dance-a-thon, apparently fashions that were requested or purchased by Web site members. In one scene, she lifted her skirt, giving the briefest glimpses of underwear. In another, the unidentified cameraman lay on the floor and shot up her skirt as she danced away un-self-consciously. That was as far as it went.
At another point in the videotape, an unidentified man whose face was not shown presented her with a new Dell Computer and said, “This was a gift from all your fans … 15 different people.”
Lanning, the retired FBI agent, reviewed a sampling of the photos at MSNBC.com’s request and said that at least one conceivably could considered child pornography under a 1994 decision by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
In that case, U.S. v. Knox, the court ruled that language in the Protection of Children Against Sexual Exploitation Act of 1977 prohibiting the “lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area” can include “non-nude depictions.” The court upheld the conviction of defendant Stephen Knox on the grounds that videotapes he had purchased showing children posing in leotards were marketed as being sexually exciting.
‘LASCIVIOUS INTENT’
But Lanning noted that even under that decision, which set precedent only in the 3rd Circuit, prosecutors would have to prove “lascivious intent” on the part of the parents or the Web site operators for a successful prosecution. That would be particularly difficult given that the pre-teens are being presented on the Web sites as “models” rather than sexual objects.
Expert: Porn filters bound to failDebbie Mahoney, CEO of Safeguarding Our Children — United Mothers (SOCUM), an organization that aims to protect children from pedophiles, says prosecutors also have an abundance of more clear-cut cases to pursue.
“The is so much hard-core child pornography and so many pedophiles on the Internet that when prosecutors see a kid like this, they say, ‘It may be egregious, but it’s not child porn, so let’s move on to something that we can prosecute,’” she said.
But Rep. Foley said he intends to explore a new legal avenue — whether the parents of the child models could be prosecuted under child-endangerment laws.
“This is reckless endangerment if I’ve ever seen it because you’re basically introducing your child to some really sick people,” Foley told MSNBC.com this week.
RISK OF PEDOPHILE STALKERS?
Such laws vary from state to state, but in general that would require a prosecutor to show that posing for the Web site would subject a child to a “substantial risk of harm.” In the case of the pre-teen sites, both potential physical harm from a pedophile stalker and possible psychological trauma from being treated as a sexual object could be considered, said Chris Paulitz, an aide to Foley.
The idea that a stalker could track down a child model was bolstered by the fact that Zamost and his WTVJ team were able to track down “Amber” and her family, starting out with only a hint from Webe Web co-founder Jeff Libman that she might live in Palm Beach County and visual clues in the photos and videos in which she appeared.
The girl’s mother and step-father declined a request for an interview, but armed with their identities, the TV crew was able to determine that the mother had been a porn performer on an adult Web site several years earlier. Through court records, the crew also was able to track down the girl’s father, who said he was opposed to the site, Zamost said.
STUDY OF THE RISK URGED
But anecdotal evidence like that likely would not be enough to persuade a jury to convict on child endangerment charges, said Howard Davidson, director of the American Bar Association’s Center for Children and the Law.
“One would have to document the risks to children of engaging in these modeling sites … rather than just be speculative about the dangers,” he said. “If there had been cases where kids had been sexually abused as a result of involvement, then I think it would be easier to sustain both in the legislature and, ultimately, in the courts.”
Such an approach also would raise raise serious First Amendment concerns, said Kim Hart, director of the National Child Abuse Defense and Resource Center.
“I think that we need to define child endangerment to make sure that we’re not casting a really broad net,” she said. “Does that mean that today we would charge Brooke Shields’ mother for ‘Blue Lagoon’?”
Hart, whose non-profit group seeks to ferret out cases of falsely reported child abuse, also said that while modeling pictures such as those on the “Lil Amber” site are distasteful, they don’t necessarily equate with endangerment.
“Just because someone does something that you don’t like, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t care about their children,” she said. “… If you want to check out the parents and make sure that the child is being clothed and fed and going to school, fine.”
‘UNSAVORY,’ BUT NOT ILLEGAL
Stephen B. Levine, a professor of psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine and an expert on sexuality, made a similar point.
“I think it’s reasonable to think that these sites are pandering to pedophiliac interests ... and they are unsavory,” he said. “But this is America, where we tolerate lots of unsavory things for freedom of expression, and I don’t think we’re willing to give up these freedoms.”
While the implications of the effort to crack down on the pre-teen “model” sites will continue to be debated, the girl known as Amber will no longer figure in the discussions.
She abruptly ended her career as an Internet “model” in December with no explanation and was replaced with a new “Lil Amber,” who bears more than a passing resemblance to the original. A posting on a now-deactivated Yahoo! fan group states that “Amber has passed on her legacy to a new model, 11-year-old Jana. ... Amber supports this group ... and [has] authorized it as Jana’s official fan group.”
Her successor doesn’t yet have her own video, but the “Lil Amber” site promises that one is coming soon.
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
junk dubbie mail from my dear dad (who i have quite a good relationship with, as i can ignore stuff like this);.
subject: satan's convention----theme: "keep them busy".
satan called a worldwide convention.
teeeeeheeeeeee
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
junk dubbie mail from my dear dad (who i have quite a good relationship with, as i can ignore stuff like this);.
subject: satan's convention----theme: "keep them busy".
satan called a worldwide convention.
Heh Yadirf
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
women back on top in new kamasutra sex manual .
http://news.excite.com/article/id/222824|oddlyenough|03-28-2002::09:06|reuters.html.
march 28, 2002 9:01 am est .
Women Back on Top in New Kamasutra Sex Manual
http://news.excite.com/article/id/222824|oddlyenough|03-28-2002::09:06|reuters.html
March 28, 2002 9:01 am EST
By Pete Harrison
LONDON (Reuters) - A new edition of the 1,700-year-old Sanskrit sex manual, the Kamasutra, hits bedside tables this month but this time around women's needs have wrestled themselves on top.
'The new translation of the Kamasutra...reflects the original emphasis on a woman's pleasure and the importance of gratifying her' says the Oxford University Press in its promotional materials.
Women have started getting a better deal since the Kamasutra was first translated for Victorian England -- at work, at home and in bed. With the changing times, nuances that were overlooked the first time around have now come to light.
'When you read the original, there's a lot of very feisty women -- women getting men to do what they want, women getting rid of them when they're bored' Wendy Doniger, who co-translated the new Oxford edition, told Reuters.
Not that Sir Richard Burton, who published his translation 1883, could be judged conservative or accused of censorship.
'He was absolutely revolutionary,' said Doniger. 'To publish it at all in that era was spectacular, but after 100 years we can do a lot better.'
Doniger said stigmas of the day clouded Burton's vision, resulting in something of a boys-own version of the Kamasutra, originally written by Indian sex guru Vatsyayana Mallanaga.
'Victorian society had a schizophrenic attitude to women,' said Doniger. By day, she said, men played Dr. Jekyll and treated their womenfolk as paragons of untouchable purity. By night they degenerated into the salacious Mr. Hyde.
'The sado-masochist dens of vice in London put a huge strain on men's attitudes to women and that comes out in Burton's Kamasutra,' said Doniger.
DIFFERENT WORLDS
Female submission was a given so where the Indian text, for example, advised women on to scold an unfaithful male, Burton lost the plot.
'Where it advises yelling, I think Burton couldn't imagine that women could have that kind of privilege,' said Doniger. 'He couldn't believe it possible.'
He was, apparently, just as numb to women's needs in bed.
'In one place it reads 'When he touches her and sees her eyes roll around, he should press harder', Doniger said. 'Burton missed that altogether.'
Best known in the West for its graphic tips on sexual gymnastics, the slick new edition of the Kamasutra, to be launched on March 28, will not disappoint inquisitive couples.
Here's a typical bit from Book Two, Chapter 6: 'When one of her feet is placed on the man's shoulder and the other is stretched out, this is called 'splitting the bamboo'...When one of her legs is raised above her head...it is called impaling on a stake.'
But Doniger's revised love manual also contains several chapters aimed at women alone -- 'Ways to get money from him,' 'Ways to get rid of him' and 'Methods of increasing the size of the male organ.'
Whether men will take the hint and become more giving in bed remains to be seen. But traditional males might find solace in some of the less politically correct chapters -- most notably 'Women who can be won without effort.'
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
junk dubbie mail from my dear dad (who i have quite a good relationship with, as i can ignore stuff like this);.
subject: satan's convention----theme: "keep them busy".
satan called a worldwide convention.
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
actor dudley moore dies at 66 .
03/27/2002 1:57 pm est.
(ap) british actor dudley moore poses in this feb. 3, 1992, file photo moore died wednesday, march.... full image .
Actor Dudley Moore Dies at 66
03/27/2002 1:57 PM EST
(AP) BrItish actor Dudley Moore poses in this Feb. 3, 1992, file photo Moore died Wednesday, March...
Full Image
LOS ANGELES (AP) - Actor Dudley Moore, who became an unlikely Hollywood heart-throb portraying a cuddly pipsqueak whose charm melted hearts in "10" and "Arthur," died Wednesday at his home in New Jersey, a spokeswoman said. He was 66.
Moore died at 11 a.m. EST, said publicist Michelle Bega in Los Angeles. The British-born actor died of pneumonia as a complication of progressive supranuclear palsy, she said.
There was more than a touch of autobiography in "10," the 1979 film in which Moore played a musician determined to marry a perfect woman. But the happy ending eluded him in real life. Four marriages ended in divorce.
He confessed to being driven by feelings of inferiority about his working-class origins in Dagenham, east London, and because of his height of five feet, 2 1/2 inches. In later life he also spoke of the pain of being rejected by his mother because he was born with a deformed left foot.
Comedians, he said in an interview with Newsday in 1980, are often driven by such feelings. "I certainly did feel inferior. Because of class. Because of strength. Because of height. ... I guess if I'd been able to hit somebody in the nose, I wouldn't have been a comic."
Moore also radiated a sense of emotional neediness, which was probably rooted in his childhood. His mother, Ada, once told him that she had wanted to kill him at birth because of his club foot.
"She said I would suffer unbearably, but obviously it was the pain she was going to suffer, feeling as she did that she was on trial for producing a hunchback," Moore told his biographer, Barbara Paskin.
Music was Moore's entree into public performance, first as a chorister and organist in his parish church in Dagenham, near London, and then in 1960 as a young Oxford graduate recruited for the hit four-man comedy review "Beyond the Fringe."
"Fringe," which played two years in London and then moved to Broadway, was perhaps the greatest assembly of young comic talent in Britain in this century. Moore was teamed with Alan Bennett, later a successful playwright; Jonathan Miller, the cerebral opera producer and medical doctor, and Peter Cook, a surreal comic talent and a famously dissipated talent.
Moore's whimsical sense of humor fitted oddly with the more savage satirical style of his partners. "Apart from his musical contributions to the show," Cook wrote in Esquire in 1974, "Dudley's suggestions were treated with benign contempt by the rest of us."
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
when i was in "dubland" they would announce how many of the "elite-class" was left on earth.. do they still do this & what are the numbers etc.
?
TheStar - what is the latest CDRom? Just curious :o)
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
alabama: hell yes, we have electricity.
alaska: 11,623 eskimos can't be wrong!.
arizona: but it's a dry heat.
Alabama: Hell Yes, We Have Electricity
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alaska: 11,623 Eskimos Can't Be Wrong!
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Arizona: But It's A Dry Heat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arkansas: Literacy Ain't Everything
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
California: By 30, Our Women Have More Plastic Than Your Honda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Colorado: If You Don't Ski, Don't Bother
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Connecticut: Like Massachusetts, Only The Kennedy's Don't Own It -- Yet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Delaware: We Really Do Like The Chemicals In Our Water
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Florida: Ask Us About Our Grandkids
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Georgia: We Put The "Fun" In Fundamentalist Extremism
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hawaii: Haka Tiki Mou Sha'ami Leeki Toru (Death To Mainland Scum,
But Leave Your Money)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Idaho: More Than Just Potatoes .. Well Okay, We're Not,
But The Potatoes Sure Are Real Good
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Illinois: Please Don't Pronounce the "S"
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Indiana: 2 Billion Years Tidal Wave Free
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Iowa: We Do Amazing Things With Corn
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Kansas: First Of The Rectangle States
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Kentucky: Five Million People; Fifteen Last Names
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Louisiana: We're Not ALL Drunk Cajun Wackos, But That's Our Tourism Campaign
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maine: We're Really Cold, But We Have Cheap Lobster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maryland: If You Can Dream It, We Can Tax It
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Massachusetts: Our Taxes Are Lower Than Sweden's (For Most Tax Brackets)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michigan: First Line Of Defense From The Canadians
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Minnesota: 10,000 Lakes... And 10,000,000,000,000 Mosquitoes
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Mississippi: Come And Feel Better About Your Own State
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Missouri: Your Federal Flood Relief Tax Dollars At Work
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Montana: Land Of The Big Sky, The Unabomber, Right-wing Crazies
And Very Little Else
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Nebraska: Ask About Our State Motto Contest
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Nevada: Hookers and Poker!
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New Hampshire: Go Away And Leave Us Alone
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New Jersey: You Want A ##$%##! Motto? I Got Yer ##$%##! Motto Right Here!
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New Mexico: Lizards Make Excellent pets
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New York: You Have The Right To Remain Silent,
You Have The Right To An Attorney ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
North Carolina: Tobacco Is A Vegetable
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North Dakota: We Really Are One Of The 50 States!
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Ohio: At Least We're Not Michigan
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Oklahoma: Like The Play, Only No Singing
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Oregon: Spotted Owl... It's What's For Dinner
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Pennsylvania: Cook With Coal
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Rhode Island: We're Not REALLY An Island
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South Carolina: Remember The Civil War? We Didn't Actually Surrender
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South Dakota: Closer Than North Dakota
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Tennessee: The Educashun State
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Texas: Si' Hablo Ing'les (Yes, I Speak English)
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Utah: Our Jesus Is Better Than Your Jesus
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Vermont: Yep
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Virginia: Who Says Government Stiffs And Slackjaw Yokels Don't Mix?
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Washington: Help! We're Overrun By Nerds And Slackers!
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Washington, D.C.: Wanna Be Mayor?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
West Virginia: One Big Happy Family... Really!
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Wisconsin: Come Cut The Cheese
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wyoming: Where Men Are Men ... and the sheep are scared!
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closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman
hey all, i'm not sure if this has been posted before, so i apoligize in advance if you all have seen it.
what's your color?.
if your birthday is on....... december 23 ~ january 1...............red.
*RED*
Cute and lovable type, You are picky but always in love...and liked
to be loved. Fresh and cheerful, but can be "moody" at times. Capable with people, nice, soft, and that can love you for the way you are. Likes people that are easy to talk to, and can make you feel comfortable.
closer
Solid stone is just sand and water, baby
Sand and water, and a million years gone by - beth nielsen chapman