Posts by careful

In Witness theology it has to do with the notion of answering the devil's challenge seen in the beginning of the book of Job. Everyone can stand up in "the universal court of divine sovereignty" (organizational phrase), that of answering the accusation which Satan made that all intelligent beings only serve God for the personal benefit gained. Each one then has the opportunity to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, not a Jehovah's Witness.

As a parallel you might consider a real court case: you have a friend named Sally who has been unjustly accused of something. You appear on behalf of your friend as a character witness. Would you be a Sally's witness or one of Sally's witnesses? Like it or not, that's the thinking behind the term "one of Jehovah's Witnesses."

It's also why they say that Abel, Abraham, David, and Jesus were individually one of Jehovah's Witnesses, not a Jehovah's Witness.

Of course, there is the secondary reason mentioned above, that the Witnesses want so greatly to separate themselves from other professed Christian religions. The primary reason, however, is theological.

I've got to include this funny story. I was once on a shepherding call with the CO, a call on an inactive brother. The CO asked him, "Do you consider yourself a Jehovah's Witness?" The inactive brother said, "I'm surprised to hear you use such a term that does not agree with the slave's publications. No one can be 'a Jehovah's Witness.' Isn't that the term used by those who don't understand the issue raised by the devil?" The CO was really embarrassed and about crapped his pants. I loved the turning of the tables on that one! I had to restrain myself from laughing.

22

WT-Closing In On 50 Subpoenas!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

more subpoenas have been added.

so the watchtower is getting close to 50. i think there are about 44 of them listed here.

brumley the witchhunter!.

careful

Two weeks ago Corney posted the following info that is on-topic here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5695516093448192/electronic-frontier-foundation-v-watch-tower-society

From my admittedly limited understanding of the topic, the GB and their Legal Department was not really attempting to enforce the laws or appeal to the government to do so, or even to take these people to court, but to make them start having to pay legal fees, hire lawyers, and so on, in other words put the muscle on them legally, something that, at least on the surface, the WTS can afford since they have free lawyers, whereas those posting in-house secret documents do not. It was an attempt to scare those posting these docs with legal fees in order to get them to stop leaking the org's secret documents, and to pay for having done so.

However, the GB must be more serious now since they are supposed to have retained a pricey legal firm to advise them here: "Watchtower had to hire Cowan, Liebowitz & Latman, a top firm in the field of copyright law, one of the six best ones nationwide according to The Legal 500 and one of the seven best ones in NY - according to Chambers." (per Corney's post) That would represent a change on their part, if they are forking over big bucks at a time when funds are tight.

Then another legal team is supposed to have undertaken to represent the Electronic Frontier Foundation, YouTube's legal team, "pro bono, namely Garvey Schubert Barer," after the org hit YouTube with a subpoena (again according to Corney's post).

If anyone is keeping up on these things, an inside report would be appreciated by many here.

And thanks, Atlantis!

13

"Dog bites religious books on South Florida beach, but his owner gets put in the doghouse"

by ShirleyW in

jw
friends

the thing that stands out about this story is and i italicized below is, the jw said he had a permit, which i really, really, really, have a strong feeling that this is the biggest lie told on the planet, dubs just set those damn carts down wherever they please, step back about five feet from them and start looking at their phones are gossiping with their pioneer partner about everyone else in the cong while getting their hours in.. man's best friend also proved to be his best accomplice in the case of a marathon man and his french bulldog butterbean.edgar wallis jones, 59, was walking his dog on sombrero beach feb. 6 at 11:30 a.m. jones approached a jehovah's witness who had a cart filled with religious literature set up near a pavilion.he told the man that he was not allowed on city or state property with religious books.

the victim responded that he had a permit and that they were free.jones said if the literature was free, he would take all of it.

he grabbed the cart while butterbean began chewing on some of the books.

careful

It's not made up:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/florida/os-ne-butterbean-french-bulldog-monroe-20190226-story.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article226858394.html

108

New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours

by thedepressedsoul in

publisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.

.

coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.

careful

In all this banter about the old GB opting to no longer charge for the lit and not foreseeing that this change would eventually bring on serious financial consequences, has anyone brought up a possible motive behind their changed policy here? They have been criticized for not just paying the taxes and upping the price of the lit a few cents. That may look simple from the outside, but for them there was probably another important factor at work. Aren't taxpaying institutions liable to audits from the government?

That is, in the old GB's minds once the org lost its tax-exempt status, wouldn't they have been afraid that they would next have to open their books to government auditors? Don't governments check up on tax-paying institutions to see they are being honest? If so, some of the org's secrets which the GB so cherish protecting would have been available for these "worldly" chaps to see, right? In the old, and likely current, GB's minds this would be the first step to uncovering their many secrets.

It seems then that they were not quite so daft as some think them to be (and I certainly would never contend that they are bright or insightful!). Likely they opted for the course they did out of fear of the consequences of another course.

Also, since SBF brought it up: are you buying everything this source (of the OP) says hook, line, and sinker, or are you exercising critical thinking on this report of the doing away of both the paper copy of the old publisher's record card and the reporting of time? Could it be that only part of the story is somewhat on track? Could it be that one idea is correct and the other dubious? You appear to be taking it all as true. It seems difficult to believe that the reporting of time is to be completely banished. It might be, but the notion that something which has been so fundamental to the concept of a person's worthiness in the Witness world would be suddenly removed is pretty drastic. What would replace it? How would a historically key factor in men's appointments be replaced? What about pioneers? Isn't pioneering entirely based on their hours? Would they do away with a statistic that has been increasing in recent years, and which they have therefore been emphasizing (more hours and pioneers), while the most important statistics (real publishers, converts, and cong numbers), which they have been downplaying, have been going downhill? There are multiple reasons to not take both points of the OP's source as equally likely.

We're not talking about doing away with the book study or the DO here. This is far more central to the Witness way of life. Think about it, SBF...

45

Lawsuit against the Watchtower for child abuse issue accepted in Quebec(Canada)

by yalbmert99 in

hi everyone, i got the news that the lawsuit against the watchtower for the child abuse issue has been accepted in quebec(canada).

that means it can proceed further.

it is a first victory.

careful

yalbert99,
Thanks for keeping us up-to-date. I'd appreciate it if you'd continue to do so.

17

Jehovah’s Witnesses Hunted Down And Deported

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

jehovah’s witnesses hunted down and deported.. https://bitterwinter.org/jehovahs-witnesses-hunted-down-and-deported/.

careful

Thanks, Bangalore, for the post; it's informative. Just a few years back the GB sent missionaries into China quite secretly. They must have changed their policy without broadcasting it. I have to wonder whether they watched other Protestant denominations doing so and figured they would too.

7

Brief Encounter

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

the witnesses knocked on my door yesterday.

a married couple, 70's probably, and introduced themselves by giving their first names and stating that they were jehovah's witnesses.. it's 5+ years since we left our old address and moved a few hundred yards away.

no-one visited us back then.

careful

Next time give them some clue as the Witness world future that you have learned here but of which they are ignorant: "Do you realize that in the future you will no longer have local publisher's record cards?" They will be immediately baffled and dismiss your comment, but then down the line when the cards are axed, they will look back on their visit in awe... "How could they have known that?"

Then if you should see them again, you can say, "Oh, didn't we tell you that have a direct line to Tony Morris?"

That will really leave them gasping.

108

New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours

by thedepressedsoul in

publisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.

.

coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.

careful

While the format of reporting records and the org keeping tabs on everyone is apparently in the works to be changed, we should not think that the concept is changing. They certainly do not want to give up any control of anyone under their sway.

Some posters note a likely reason for this reported coming change, that is, like so many other changes, legal fears. That's legit. However, more is at work here. It will now be easier for those at HQ to check up on anyone, since each publisher's record will now be available within their in-house digital system. Right now, if some chap in the Service Department wants the field service time, other sheep or anointed status, or record of judicial action against someone, he would have to contact a local secretary. In this new system, he'll just press a button. It will also reduce paperwork and save time.

When the CO visits, on Tuesday during the day he meets with at least some of the BOE and carefully goes over each pub record card. Now he'll be able to do so online before he arrives. As we know, it's all about streamlining and especially about control, control, control.

Sorry, SBF, the org is not collapsing, your wishes to the contrary notwithstanding. Nor is their becoming like other religions in a big way in the works (in some small things, no doubt), again, in spite of your cravings.