Posts by careful

41

New Blood policy for JW medical professionals?

by FreeAgent in

hey folks, .

it’s been a long time since i’ve posted, good to see the forum well attended & spicy as ever.

this just in from a close & trusted source, names & local places redacted for obvious reasons:.

careful

Thanks, blondie, for the refs from the 1964 WT mag. My knowledge of the practice came from very experienced elders, the KM school, and/or some bros I knew in the medical fields (I forget now which), but I figured it was buried in some old WT lit somewhere. I appreciate your digging it up.

I cannot help but wonder whether another factor MAY be at work here, but it is so intellectual and educated, in other words, so un-WT-like that I have my doubts. In the apostolic council at Acts 15, where early Christian leaders decided what commandments from the Heb Bible were to be binding on Gentile converts, the things they chose can all be found in Genesis, before the covenant at Sinai under Moses (as was circumcision, the issue that brought the council together). At least that's what biblical scholarship says. Rabbinic Judaism had come up with the concept of Noahide/Noachide Laws (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah#Christianity), and that's what was behind the decisions the early Christian leadership made in Acts.

The premise behind this concept is in direct opposition to the spirit of Deut. 14:21 (that is, it's okay for Gentiles to eat blood/unbled meat [Deut] vs. it is not [Noachide Laws], and that's what was at work in Acts 15). Non-evangelical scholars can handle the concept of the Bible being contradictory in places. Since the GB cannot, that's why I'm wondering whether they are now opting for the the Noachide Laws over Freddie Franz's old interpretation/application of Deut. 14:21. They have been changing a lot of his old interpretations and applications of scripture. They've jettisoned the whole type-anti-type thing that he was so big on. They've really changed his NWT. So perhaps this is yet another one. I suppose they may just say that the Deut passage was part of the Law that passed away with Christianity, so it's no longer applicable. Go figure...

29

Congregation memorial stats

by nowwhat? in

2 congregations met together attendance 355 which is close to exact number of combined publishers.

only saw a couple of new faces.

so it looks like once again the invitation work was a complete failure and relatives of jw's couldn't be talked into coming anymore!.

careful

"an American Indian sat in the front row and polished off the entire glass of wine before passing it on. Funniest part was watching goblet passer trying desperately to get it away from him."

FedUpJW, that WAS funny! Too bad there isn't a video of that one.

49

VIDEO - Memorial toast stuns Jehovahs Witnesses congregation!

by John_Carter_1912 in

i applaud this great and holy man!

do you?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fstqepi9iu.

careful

What I personally feel about this guy's tactics is not as important as the fact that to any regular Witness, this is a shocking thing to have happen at a Memorial celebration. It's the most sacred thing they do.You could see how angry the elders were with the guy.

The GB will have already heard about this one and will be busy figuring out how to stop such further occurrences. If they try too much security at the Memorial, it will turn off newbies (if there are any!) and inactive ones they are trying to activate. They will have to do something, however.

10

Orange County, CA: New Case and New Legal Tactic

by Corney in

john roe 1 vs. defendant doe 1, congregation is a child sexual abuse case pending before the superior court of california, orange county (judge john c. gastelum).

jury trial is scheduled on june 15, 2020, but it may not occur: the judge is expected to decide on multiple pre-trial motions including motion for sanctions filed by plantiffs; next hearing on pre-trial motions is scheduled on may 14.. case docket is available here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbqcronnkeax492pshgwpuoubt-xaabz/view?usp=sharing .

case documents are available for purchase here: https://ocapps.occourts.org/civilwebshoppingns/search.do (case number 30-2014-00741722-cu-po-cjc).. during the course of this litigation the court ordered watchtower to produce molestation complaints it received, redacting only names of victims and elders handling the matters.

careful

If we compare this legal move with what was announced a few days ago in another post on this forum,

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6290920921104384/dutch-ex-jws-online-survey-sexual-abuse-within-jw-netherlands-utrecht-university

there seems to be a common denominator.

In the other post it was related that the Witnesses in Holland were being encouraged to take a survey that a Dutch university has put together on CSA among JWs in the Netherlands. At first glance this looked like some rogue branch committee member had perhaps broken with GB policy. However, a poster there then clarified the OP, stating that the "faithful" who were going to participate in this survey were to do so under the guidance of the local BOE. Surely they would be directed what to say, how to answer, etc. In other words, it is a ploy of the org to make themselves look good by getting faithful, obedient members say what they are told to say. It will supposedly look like "outside" confirmation of current organizational policy. That is, the GB are now trying to employ the R&F for their personal ends.

It looks like the "new legal tactic" that Corney is reporting here has a similar purpose. The R&F are being recruited to provide cover for the org and its policies. In the Orange County matter, by bringing more entities with conflicting interests into the case, it will slow the case down in the courts. More legal decisions will have to be made and it will drag things out. This is in harmony with the GB's overall tactic of obfuscate and delay, the method they have so regularly shown they love to employ when being sued.

So the sheeple have been given a role to play here as both cover and a means for delay. How many other ways will they be used in the future? Doubtless they will view it all as a great privilege! Perhaps though, it will backfire, just like the GB hiring that "worldly" female psychologist, briefing her with only what they wanted her to know, and then shipping her off to the ARC to make the org look good, but in reality the sharp prosecutor there saw through it all. In the Orange County case, perhaps some of the R&F who are conscripted will see through the lies and corruption. We'll have to wait and see.

41

New Blood policy for JW medical professionals?

by FreeAgent in

hey folks, .

it’s been a long time since i’ve posted, good to see the forum well attended & spicy as ever.

this just in from a close & trusted source, names & local places redacted for obvious reasons:.

careful

Thanks FreeAgent for the post.

As lastmanstanding says, this is interesting and bears watching. For years the organization has used Deuteronomy 14:21 for their policy on this matter. It says that Israelites under the law could not eat meat found dead, but they could let Gentiles living among them eat it, or even sell it to them. The implication is that Israelites could not eat eat it because of the prohibition against eating blood. Thus this passage has been the scriptural "okay" for Witness personnel in medical fields to administer blood products to "worldly" patients.

So if there is some change in policy here, I have to wonder whether some "new light" is about to "revealed" regarding Deuteronomy 14:21. Of course, they may just ignore it and push ahead with this policy change without offering any new interpretation. That would fit the trend under GB II to do just such a thing.

22

Review: revised Elder's manual, part 4 (final part)

by neat blue dog in

here's the cruel, uncomfortable and dehumanizing description of transport for disfellowshipped ones:.

in cases of real need, the elders can determine wheth-er some assistance may be provided.

such assistance would be viewed as similar to public transportation in that there should be no conversing with the disfellowshipped or disassociated person.

careful

I just saw Atlantis's post

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5669678262255616/desirousofchange-elder-manuals

and downloaded it. I see the latest English Shepherding book says "January 2019 Printing". Sorry to have bothered you.

22

Review: revised Elder's manual, part 4 (final part)

by neat blue dog in

here's the cruel, uncomfortable and dehumanizing description of transport for disfellowshipped ones:.

in cases of real need, the elders can determine wheth-er some assistance may be provided.

such assistance would be viewed as similar to public transportation in that there should be no conversing with the disfellowshipped or disassociated person.

careful

NBD,

Thanks for your posts and highlights. Is this a new elder's manual or the last one Atlantis posted about a year ago?

12

How many new topics can you post per day?

by HiddenPimo in

i noticed that yesterday i could make a post on someones already posted topic/thread but i was unable to start a new topic?.

i tired chrome / firefox / safari and none would allow me to post.. thanks in advance for any help.. hp.

careful

Got any Nigerian KHs for sale? Simon, good joke!

11

Dutch (ex) JWs: Online survey sexual abuse within JW Netherlands by Utrecht University

by jochie in

since today dutch (ex)jws are asked to fill out an online survey by utrecht university with regard to (child) sexual abuse.as chairman of reclaimed voices i call on all dutch speaking (ex) jws to fill out this survey in case you were a victim of abuse or in case you know of someone else that was abused within the jehovah's witnesseswith your participation you contribute to an important investigation that is carried out.link to the survey: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/sv_4hkmbqjhlm0uhmh

careful

Ah, that may explain it. They're planting answers from the faithful. I'm sure many will rush to state what the org wants to hear.

At the Aust. Royal Commission, didn't the GB pay some "worldly" female psychologist to do the same thing, only to have it backfire on them? Surely the Dutch government will see through this...?

11

Dutch (ex) JWs: Online survey sexual abuse within JW Netherlands by Utrecht University

by jochie in

since today dutch (ex)jws are asked to fill out an online survey by utrecht university with regard to (child) sexual abuse.as chairman of reclaimed voices i call on all dutch speaking (ex) jws to fill out this survey in case you were a victim of abuse or in case you know of someone else that was abused within the jehovah's witnesseswith your participation you contribute to an important investigation that is carried out.link to the survey: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/sv_4hkmbqjhlm0uhmh

careful

WOW, "remarkable" indeed, as the news article puts it. I'm relying on a google translation since I have zero knowledge of Dutch. Is this guy rogue or is the GB orchestrating something here? It's difficult to believe they're coming clean in Holland. This is certainly worth watching!

Google translation of picture caption:

The board of Jehovah's Witnesses Netherlands has called on its members to participate in research at Utrecht University into sexual abuse within the organization. The appeal is remarkable because the denomination normally avoids contact with non-ecclesiastical authorities.

The rest:

The call is included in an internal letter in the hands of RTL News.
Personal choice

In the letter, which was sent to all departments last week, the board asks members who are victims of child abuse to fill in a questionnaire on the Utrecht University site. He is commissioned by the Ministry of Justice and Security to investigate abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses.

"Of course participation in this study is a personal choice," the board writes in the letter. "Nevertheless, we hope that this will give Utrecht University accurate and balanced information about how our organization responds to abuse."

According to sources within the church, the letter was read during meetings in the church buildings. Jehovah's Witnesses was unable to respond to this message on Monday, a RTL News spokesperson said.

Under attention

Jehovah's Witnesses have recently been discredited because they only prosecute perpetrators of child abuse internally and do not report them to the police and the judiciary. The organization also refuses to hand over documents on internal court cases to the judiciary. Therefore, last November the police raided the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Kees van den Bos, research leader at Utrecht University is 'naturally' happy with the appeal from the board of Jehovah's Witnesses. "We have been in touch by email over the past few weeks and have asked them to bring our research to the attention of their members. It's nice to hear that they have done so now." The researchers were not involved in the preparation of the letter.

Victims

The investigators have now received 'a few hundred serious reports' about abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses. Van den Bos could not say whether the last call led to new reports.

The Reclaimed Voices Foundation, which represents victims of abuse within Jehovah's witnesses, is also "positive" that the Jehovah's Witnesses point their members to this investigation. "We hope that active Jehovah's Witnesses who are victims of sexual abuse or who are aware of a situation will participate in the investigation," says President Raymond Hintjes.

The research at Utrecht University came about following a motion from the House of Representatives. The goal is to see how Jehovah's Witnesses deals with reports of child abuse. Anyone who has experience with abuse within that church can report to the investigators until 1 June. The intention is that the final report can be published in the autumn.